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Powys Bus Changes

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markymark2000

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I've been keeping my eyes open for news on this, apart from the excellent Lloyds Coaches note there is very little anywhere with barely over a week to go. Shambolic from Powys yet the changes themselves in my view look positive. Good service that no-one will know about!
The changes as consulted are positive generally.

As registered there aren't anywhere near as many improvements. Ie consulted was T12 (well T12 replacement) hourly from Wrexham to Newtown. As registered though and confirmed by Tanat on closed Facebook group comments, It's now not serving Wrexham or Chirk which is actually quite a bit cut and will force people on slower and less frequent buses.

Also the 34 was proposed to return in Machynlleth to fill dead time in the X85 but that isn't coming back.


When full info comes out, it may be worth someone doing a comparison of the consultation and what actually happened because the impression I am getting is that the consultation was pointless as so much has changed since despite from what I read in the consultation report, no one suggesting these changes that have been made since.
 

burns20

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34 was a bit random as it would've run majority in Gwynedd competing with Gwynedd tendered Fflecsi FF2 on the same route.

The vehicles in the dead time could've been used to provide a fixed service on the 36 to replace the B36 BwcaBws to encourage usage in the growing villages in the Dyfi Valley.
 

trawscymru27

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The new T4 timetable is available on the TrawsCymru website. Go to the bottom of the page and download the pdf - the timetable on the webpage is wrong even when a date beyond 1st September is chosen.


There looks to be new evening journeys and an improved service on a Sunday. A few journeys also start/end in Llanidloes.
 

RELL6L

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Lloyds Coaches website updated with timetables for 72, 74, X76, 76, X77, 79, 79a, 79b, X80, 81 and T4

https://lloydscoaches.com/powys-bus-changes/
Good to see information trickling through and thank you for sharing this and highlighting your web page as it updates. Still quite a few missing though for next week!

Also some typos in the timetables and the journeys on the T4 are not all in the correct order! Looks like the T4 is four vehicles, one of which does Brecon shorts most of the day, two based in Llanidloes (one coming via Newtown and one via Rhayder) and two based in Brecon. Is this Celtic Travel outstationing two buses at Williams or elsewhere?
 

kerm96

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Good to see information trickling through and thank you for sharing this and highlighting your web page as it updates. Still quite a few missing though for next week!

Also some typos in the timetables and the journeys on the T4 are not all in the correct order! Looks like the T4 is four vehicles, one of which does Brecon shorts most of the day, two based in Llanidloes (one coming via Newtown and one via Rhayder) and two based in Brecon. Is this Celtic Travel outstationing two buses at Williams or elsewhere?
Williams are supplying vechiels and driver for the T4 is what i was told

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Timetables for the x15 and x44 finally up
 

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RELL6L

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Williams are supplying vechiels and driver for the T4 is what i was told
That makes sense. The vehicles stay put each day, whereas if they were Celtic's own vehicles you would expect them to swap at least one each day. No doubt the drivers stay put too but they must work on each others vehicles, beyond my brain to work out how.

The times for the X77 show buses leaving Shrewsbury at 11.22, 13.22 and 14.22 and arriving at Copthorne 5 minutes earlier! Not sure if the departure times should be 5 minutes earlier or all the other times on these journeys 10 minutes later. If anyone can pass the info to the powers that be this might be one worth getting right. Connection times on other services suggest it is the other times to be 10 minutes later.

Strange to have the huge 4 hour gap between Hereford and Hay on Wye on schooldays on the X44/X15.

Still missing the X47 and X75, hope we will see these soon.
 

markymark2000

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Lloyds Coaches website updated with timetables for B36, 40A, 40B, 41A, 43, X43, X44, X47, B49, 72, 74, X75, X76, 76, X77, 79, 79a, 79b, X80, 81, B83, X85 and T4

https://lloydscoaches.com/powys-bus-changes/
I'm not always a fan of how Lloyds do things but this is excellent. It's a shame that you have had to do it, it should have been done by Powys Council or TFW (given the changes were largely done in collaboration with TFW). TFW and Welsh Councils incompetence never fails to surprise me.
 

markymark2000

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Is it fair to assume that seamless connections means guaranteed, and improved means less waiting time for a connecting service than has been the case to date ?
The theory is guaranteed connections but in reality it won't be. I've seen it happen far too often in Corwen and Dolgellau where it's meant to be guaranteed or seamless connections, but when the departure time comes the buses drive off and don't care to wait even 30 seconds for a late running bus. M&H always did it at Corwen, even if a late running bus was pulling into Corwen, they would still drive off infront of it rather than wait a minute incase of connecting passengers.

Less waiting time between connecting services works well, it people want to make those connections. Networks built on forcing all buses to connect, tend to mean they look very pretty on paper, but don't work out for local people or commuters. And it works even less then in almost all cases buses fail to wait for eachother as happens extremely regularly on TrawsCymru routes or the Gwynedd network which works off the same principals.
 

RELL6L

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The design of the connections looks quite slick but they need to wait if necessary. Missing a bus and spending a couple of hours in Welshpool, Newtown or Llandrindod is one thing, but not Llangurig!
 

Statto

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I had a ride on the full T12 the other day before it was withdrawn, i always felt it was bonkers that the T12 was operated by 2 operators & you had to change at Newtown as Tanat Valley operated Wrexham - Newtown section with Lloyds the Newtown - Machynlleth section, i know some went to/from Welshpool.

Also who sets the fares on the TrawsCymru network as its £4 adult single on the T2 Bangor to Aberystwyth (also £4 max single fare on the T3), but was £9 single Machynlleth to Wrexham on the T12, & £5.70 alone from Machynlleth to Newtown, the T2 is longer than the old T12?

I see the max adult fare on the new X85 (part replacement for the T12) is now £3.70, £2 cheaper than the old T12.
 

burns20

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I had a ride on the full T12 the other day before it was withdrawn, i always felt it was bonkers that the T12 was operated by 2 operators & you had to change at Newtown as Tanat Valley operated Wrexham - Newtown section with Lloyds the Newtown - Machynlleth section, i know some went to/from Welshpool.

Also who sets the fares on the TrawsCymru network as its £4 adult single on the T2 Bangor to Aberystwyth (also £4 max single fare on the T3), but was £9 single Machynlleth to Wrexham on the T12, & £5.70 alone from Machynlleth to Newtown, the T2 is longer than the old T12?

I see the max adult fare on the new X85 (part replacement for the T12) is now £3.70, £2 cheaper than the old T12.
It used to be through journeys by both operators, I used to be the regular driver on the T12 when it launched.

I'm not sure why it was split. Hardly anyone went across Newtown on it as it seen as round the houses to Welshpool.

The Newtown to Welshpool via Montgomery section was quiet with only maybe 4 passengers for that section. The busy section was Llandrinio to Oswestry then empty again till Chirk where you'd get a good dozen going into Wrexham.

T12/X85 fares are set by Powys County Council but as part of the new network the TfW style distance based fares are being adopted.
 

Statto

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It used to be through journeys by both operators, I used to be the regular driver on the T12 when it launched.

I'm not sure why it was split. Hardly anyone went across Newtown on it as it seen as round the houses to Welshpool.

The Newtown to Welshpool via Montgomery section was quiet with only maybe 4 passengers for that section. The busy section was Llandrinio to Oswestry then empty again till Chirk where you'd get a good dozen going into Wrexham.

T12/X85 fares are set by Powys County Council but as part of the new network the TfW style distance based fares are being adopted.

Cheers for that, that makes sense, it would have made more sense to have different number for one section when the T12 was split maybe one section being T13.

Another thing, shame no fast Oswestry - Wrexham section anymore, the Arriva 2/2A take over 70 minutes end to end, were as the T12 was just over 45 minutes.
 

burns20

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Cheers for that, that makes sense, it would have made more sense to have different number for one section when the T12 was split maybe one section being T13.

Another thing, shame no fast Oswestry - Wrexham section anymore, the Arriva 2/2A take over 70 minutes end to end, were as the T12 was just over 45 minutes.






“The council fully understands the disappointment regarding the termination of the T12 at St Martins, but this decision was not taken lightly.



“Without financial support from neighbouring authorities, we are unable to sustain the full length of the service to Wrexham.



“We continue to explore collaborative opportunities, but at present, the service must operate within the resources available to us.”
 

CN12 AWU

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looks like Stagecoach are still running the 43 and T4 today not the new operators

Some intresting allocations on T4

Also looks like a 08 plate solo has transferred from Cwmbran to Merthyr and is on the 51 today
 

Dai Corner

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looks like Stagecoach are still running the 43 and T4 today not the new operators

Some intresting allocations on T4

Also looks like a 08 plate solo has transferred from Cwmbran to Merthyr and is on the 51 today
Are the existing vehicles being transferred to the new operators or are the Welsh Government providing new ones? If the latter, perhaps they're not ready yet or are 75 plate and can't run until tomorrow?
 

Busman792

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Are the existing vehicles being transferred to the new operators or are the Welsh Government providing new ones? If the latter, perhaps they're not ready yet or are 75 plate and can't run until tomorrow?
The existing vehicles are starting to be de-commissioned from the Stagecoach fleet today, thus the allocation of Scania's. The existing stock will be returned to Powys C.C. The new operators have acquired their own vehicles with new stock for the T4 on order for March.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

looks like Stagecoach are still running the 43 and T4 today not the new operators

Some intresting allocations on T4

Also looks like a 08 plate solo has transferred from Cwmbran to Merthyr and is on the 51 today
The new contracts don't start until September 1st, so Stagecoach are running the T4 and X43 today also. The Traws vehicles are now in the process of being de-commissioned from the Stagecoach fleet so Scania's have been allocated. The '08' plate Solo has been at Merthyr for a while, one of three that went with the Fflecsi work when Brynmawr outstation closed.
 

CN12 AWU

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The existing vehicles are starting to be de-commissioned from the Stagecoach fleet today, thus the allocation of Scania's. The existing stock will be returned to Powys C.C. The new operators have acquired their own vehicles with new stock for the T4 on order for March.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


The new contracts don't start until September 1st, so Stagecoach are running the T4 and X43 today also. The Traws vehicles are now in the process of being de-commissioned from the Stagecoach fleet so Scania's have been allocated. The '08' plate Solo has been at Merthyr for a while, one of three that went with the Fflecsi work when Brynmawr outstation closed.
Ah right it was tracking on the 1B yesterday and said 'Cwmbran depot' on it so guessed it transfered today
 

RELL6L

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Many details still sketchy with the best information from following the maps of various vehicles on BusTimes.

Powys Council now has a website listing the new services - but the links are to Traveline Cymru which is pretty useless. Some link to new timetables (T4, X75), some old ones (eg 74), some just an error (eg X76, X77).

While the new timetables are not generally on BusTimes it is possible to follow where individual vehicles have been from which some timetable info can be deduced.
Celtic Travel have two vehicles on the T4, one of which is doing the Merthyr-Brecon shorts. Williams Travel have two vehicles on the T4 doing full length journeys.
Williams Travel appear to be running five 75-plate vehicles, two B8RLE Evora's on the T4 and three E200s on the 43/X43. Impressive for 1 September!

Tanat Valley have a variety of vehicles out on the X76 and X77 including B8RLEs, a Metrocity and E200s.

Owens Travelmaster have an 08-plate Solo running on the 87 from Welshpool. There is no link to the supposed new timetable anywhere that I can find, but the Solo does appear to be running to this improved timetable rather than the old one.
 

SW Buses

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Many details still sketchy with the best information from following the maps of various vehicles on BusTimes.

Powys Council now has a website listing the new services - but the links are to Traveline Cymru which is pretty useless. Some link to new timetables (T4, X75), some old ones (eg 74), some just an error (eg X76, X77).

While the new timetables are not generally on BusTimes it is possible to follow where individual vehicles have been from which some timetable info can be deduced.
Celtic Travel have two vehicles on the T4, one of which is doing the Merthyr-Brecon shorts. Williams Travel have two vehicles on the T4 doing full length journeys.
Williams Travel appear to be running five 75-plate vehicles, two B8RLE Evora's on the T4 and three E200s on the 43/X43. Impressive for 1 September!

Tanat Valley have a variety of vehicles out on the X76 and X77 including B8RLEs, a Metrocity and E200s.

Owens Travelmaster have an 08-plate Solo running on the 87 from Welshpool. There is no link to the supposed new timetable anywhere that I can find, but the Solo does appear to be running to this improved timetable rather than the old one.

Many details still sketchy with the best information from following the maps of various vehicles on BusTimes.

Powys Council now has a website listing the new services - but the links are to Traveline Cymru which is pretty useless. Some link to new timetables (T4, X75), some old ones (eg 74), some just an error (eg X76, X77).

While the new timetables are not generally on BusTimes it is possible to follow where individual vehicles have been from which some timetable info can be deduced.
Celtic Travel have two vehicles on the T4, one of which is doing the Merthyr-Brecon shorts. Williams Travel have two vehicles on the T4 doing full length journeys.
Williams Travel appear to be running five 75-plate vehicles, two B8RLE Evora's on the T4 and three E200s on the 43/X43. Impressive for 1 September!

Tanat Valley have a variety of vehicles out on the X76 and X77 including B8RLEs, a Metrocity and E200s.

Owens Travelmaster have an 08-plate Solo running on the 87 from Welshpool. There is no link to the supposed new timetable anywhere that I can find, but the Solo does appear to be running to this improved timetable rather than the old one.

Powys Council now has a website listing the new services - but the links are to Traveline Cymru which is pretty useless. Some link to new timetables (T4, X75), some old ones (eg 74), some just an error (eg X76, X77).
The Traveline information in Wales is always pretty poor - being inaccurate or out of date. I understand it is run from within TfW and not directly from the main UK Traveline organisation - which no doubt explains that.
 

burns20

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New Powys Zonal Ticket tube style Network Maps should be on the ticketing pages of Lloyds Coaches tomorrow, see the Powys Day/Weekly Rover Network Map as an example

Bus Network Map - Powys, v2, 28.08.2025 onwards_page-0001.jpg
 

K219UHA

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Tanat Valley have a variety of vehicles out on the X76 and X77 including B8RLEs, a Metrocity and E200s.

And a Mercedes-Benz Sprinter Ilesbus i-City! Yes it was tracking right as physically seen!
 
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