Power

[j0hn0]

With the laughable suggestion of fuel cell trains arriving shortly in the government white paper, other than diesel or electric, does anyone else envisage any other ways of powering trains being developed in the coming years?

Personally, i believe that the power of magnetic levitation should be harnessed and adapted to work on conventional rails. Here's my theory, please feel free to shoot me down......

Third and Fourth maglev rails at side of track. Train drives in, drops the pantograph and extends magnets out of the side of the train (all the way down the train). Propulsion is then provided by the magnetic field running down the third and fourth rails and braking is done in the same way but by reversing the magnetic field.

OK so, with the loads involved, is this even possible?

If people are not prepared to invest in technology that is cleaner, faster and more efficient for the sake of interoperability, then surely that technology should be adapted so that it can be used on existing networks?

Existing trains could be adapted and new trains built with this in mind.

Having travelled on the Shanghai maglev, it amazes me that China are the only country to invest in it. It has cost billions to develop, yet due to the price of it, no-one wants to buy it.

So why not use much of that research to create a new patent for maglev to be used merely as a means of propulsion, rather than a whole new railway concept?

comments?

 

[90019]

There's a reason maglevs run with the underneath of the train wrapped around a single rail with faily large electromagnets in.
You would have to have something to keep the train on the rails, otherwise it would fly off on a corner; and with the suggested method, it would be a very complicated process to get the train set up to use that safely, and would take some time to set it up for use each time. Not to mention the difficulty of supporting, and moving at high speed, a 302 ton (if we use the 225 as an example) with only magnets out of the sides.

It's a nice idea, but, IMO, unrealistic.

Also, the electricity for the magnets comes from the same power stations as for an electric loco.

 

[FusionRail]

Horses?

On a serious note, diesel. Or Bio-diesel. Or electric.

 

[mrcheek]

How about hot air? you know, the kind that we get every few years from politicians who promise to improve rail services....

 

[j0hn0]

how about turbines? isn't there an Amtrak train in the US that runs off a gas turbine?

of course, electric is good but is regenerative breaking, combined with high power usage, efficient enough when running at high speeds?

There must be an easier and cheaper way than standard electrification for the whole network.....nuclear?

 

[Ilove165's]

Hydrogen powered trains anyone?

Sam

 

[j0hn0]

saw this today for something that eliminates the need for catanery

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news_...282/primove_catenary_free_induction_tram.html

 

[Mojo]

saw this today for something that eliminates the need for catanery

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news_...282/primove_catenary_free_induction_tram.html

The Ultra Light Rail concept, of which I went to a conference about a year ago in Bristol also contains a system whereby overhead wires are an optional extra, although unlike that example it makes no use of electricity.

 

[Metroland]

Gas turbines are fuel inefficient - I think the original ATP was about 350 yards a gallon despite its light weight. Hydrogen is not a fuel source its a vector. The underground catenary system looks quite exciting though. Its about time something like that was developed as the traditional overhead system dates from at least the 1880s. Same with signalling - colour lights and power signalling dates from the 1920s/30s. In the age on wifi, satnav and mobile communication something better (in cab and semi-automatic) and nearly cableless should be developed. All this would reduce costs substantially, the railway uses too much early 20th century technology.

 

[FusionRail]

Gas turbines are fuel inefficient - I think the original ATP was about 350 yards a gallon despite its light weight. Hydrogen is not a fuel source its a vector. The underground catenary system looks quite exciting though. Its about time something like that was developed as the traditional overhead system dates from at least the 1880s. Same with signalling - colour lights and power signalling dates from the 1920s/30s. In the age on wifi, satnav and mobile communication something better (in cab and semi-automatic) and nearly cableless should be developed. All this would reduce costs substantially, the railway uses too much early 20th century technology.

Colour lights came after the 20s/30s in this country.

And that underground thingy is basically wireless 3rd rail!

 

[j0hn0]

.

And that underground thingy is basically wireless 3rd rail!

It definitely is a step in the right direction and with investment could work for many other industries too.

Wireless power, if properly developed could solve some major infrastructure upgrade costs

 

[Metroland]

Colour lights came after the 20s/30s in this country.

The ECML was full of them by the 30s (many of which were automatic) with several power boxes north of York. The Brighton line electrification included colour light signals in the 1930s, as did the earlier Great Western schemes. The southern had colour light signals outside London bridge in the 20s. so did the Liverpool overhead railway.

The principle of three-and four aspect signals was agreed by the Institution of Railway Signal Engineers in 1924. This was rapidly followed by the Southern Railway installing its first four-aspect signals in 1926.

On the underground they date from 1898.

Colour light distant signals were also widely commissioned from the 30s as were intermediate block signals.

 

[Respite]

As long as they are allowed to use those airborne fuel dumping devices (i.e. Jet aircraft) then why should we have to bother adapting what we have. We are already leading the Co2 vs mile figure with the lowest figures around for any transport device (other than horse & cart/sailing boat/bicycle/magic carpet) per tonne or person.
So for the politicions I will say, leave us alone & go & target the real enviromental problems like lorries/cars/Airliners...or sleep,get caught in sex scandals or fraud type allagations like normal MPS'd should.

 

[Mojo]

It's not just the environmental issues though; electric rail vehicles tend to be more reliable and faster accelerating. I also find them far quieter than diesel trains, leading to a better ride & improving the excellent technology of the railways even more.

 

[Phoenix]

Just a question here but why can't we have AC Third-rail???
Alot cheaper to install and run but I have this feeling someone is about to mention a major flaw in my madness.

 

[Respite]

It's not just the environmental issues though; electric rail vehicles tend to be more reliable and faster accelerating. I also find them far quieter than diesel trains, leading to a better ride & improving the excellent technology of the railways even more.

But they are boring as hell to drive!!! Don't ruin my vocation for me !
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just a question here but why can't we have AC Third-rail???
Alot cheaper to install and run but I have this feeling someone is about to mention a major flaw in my madness.

ARC ARC ARC ARC...... There ya go... No one would be safe. If you are going to have hornby trains then keep the big juice hanging somewhere up there above your head.