Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Yes, the egregious crime of filming a train without permission. I hope Mr Bourgeois has learnt a hard lesson, hopefully society will recover from such a dark day.
If there are established platform access safety procedures in place at Wembley Central that station staff have to follow, what are the staff supposed to do?
We know what can happen to TOCs where enthusiasts have contravened safe practice and come to harm because of it - they can be fined 7 figure sums. Safety takes priority.
It’s easy to be dismissive when it’s not you that would be accountable if something went wrong. And I speak as someone who used to do the videoing trains thing years ago, including on those platforms, you have to be aware of your surroundings and adhere to the conditions, which in the case of that station is to let someone know what you’re doing.
it would seen more about where he is though and the fact he didn’t ask for permission.
What tends to happen on subjects like this is people only look at it from Francis point of view, but at the end of the day if there was indeed a rule he did break then if you break it for him then you have to break it for everyone.
platform train interface is one of the biggest risk on the railway and if I were in this station manager’s position I would take it seriously.
Do I have a list of the rules? No, but someone earlier said that this part of the station is closed to public at this time and in the video he says you need a ticket to be there.
How would a passenger who alights from a train be expected to know that at some platforms you are required to immediately vacate the platform? is this rule documented anywhere?
As for needing a ticket; I hardly think he travelled without a valid ticket. Surely you are not suggesting that?
What tends to happen on subjects like this is people only look at it from Francis point of view, but at the end of the day if there was indeed a rule he did break then if you break it for him then you have to break it for everyone.
platform train interface is one of the biggest risk on the railway and if I were in this station manager’s position I would take it seriously.
No-one is suggesting anything should not be taken "seriously" however in my experience someone in a position of authority is far more likely to be respected, and for the matter to be taken seriously, if they are calm and professional, rather than ranting; would you disagree with me on that?
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Inadvisable; this would be a byelaw offence and you could be required to immediately leave railway premises, and denied any further travel from that station.
Far better to remain calm.
However if the staff member continues to behave in such a manner towards other members of the public, then the unfortunate reality is that one day a member of the public would react in a manner that could be violent and/or abusive and the matter could escalate.
I would suggest all parties learn some conflict avoidance/management techniques.
It doesn’t seem awfully nice to create a situation where his behaviour on the narrow platform is sufficient to attract the attention of the supervisor, then stand there protesting that he’s videoing trains, then choosing to upload the footage and centre the video on this interaction, deliberately omitting the wider context of what caused this two way conflict to start.
It’s funny there’s no explanation that it’s well known to enthusiasts who video trains locally that loitering on that platform specifically is virtually guaranteed to get the staff to tell you to leave if you don’t get permission first, because of long established safety procedures.
I’ve got nothing against him and would say exactly the same for anyone else who behaves like this - the behaviour is bordering on entitled and uploading the member of staff following this behaviour is possibly poor judgement. If doing something wrong in first place then probably better to keep it quiet, and pick literally any other station in the UK to film, where platform access is fine without having to speak to staff first.
I have nothing against Francis, and I’m sure he’s a lovely guy. I really want to emphasise that point as I think it’s important. But also he’s a professional content creator and I’d expect his actions to reflect that. He’s not “just an enthusiast” or a random member of the public anymore. I’d expect him to be more consistent in getting permission where necessary, following safety rules and reasonable instructions from staff than the average teenage train spotter (who are prone to roam all over stations and occasionally make a nuisance of themselves).
I don’t know the context of that conversation so I can’t say if it were unacceptable or not. Maybe it was, I totally accept that possibility.
Francis chose to upload a video of an identifiable member of staff. That video now has 287k views by now. The comment section is full of some really quite nasty comments about the member of staff. This is a fairly predictable outcome of his video.
Considering the well-being of the member of staff, I don’t think uploading identifiable footage of a member of staff on a YouTube channel that has such a large reach was a responsible, or professional thing to do.
Considering the well-being of the member of staff, I don’t think uploading identifiable footage of a member of staff on a YouTube channel that has such a large reach was a responsible, or professional thing to do.
Indeed, if he's intending to make a point about staff professionalism, it could have been made without visually identifying the member of staff, using just the audio, or blurring out the staff member's face.
I have nothing against Francis, and I’m sure he’s a lovely guy. I really want to emphasise that point as I think it’s important. But also he’s a professional content creator and I’d expect his actions to reflect that. He’s not “just an enthusiast” or a random member of the public anymore. I’d expect him to be more consistent in getting permission where necessary, following safety rules and reasonable instructions from staff than the average teenage train spotter (who are prone to roam all over stations and occasionally make a nuisance of themselves).
I don’t know the context of that conversation so I can’t say if it were unacceptable or not. Maybe it was, I totally accept that possibility.
Francis chose to upload a video of an identifiable member of staff. That video now has 287k views by now. The comment section is full of some really quite nasty comments about the member of staff. This is a fairly predictable outcome of his video.
Considering the well-being of the member of staff, I don’t think uploading identifiable footage of a member of staff on a YouTube channel that has such a large reach was a responsible, or professional thing to do.
You are entitled to your opinions but I think the majority of people who see the video will not agree that "maybe" the behaviour of the staff member was acceptable and that Francis behaviour was irresponsible.
If the staff member had behaved in a manner that would near-universally been considered appropriate, then they would not be in this position.
You are entitled to your opinions but I think the majority of people who see the video will not agree that "maybe" the behaviour of the staff member was acceptable and that Francis behaviour was irresponsible.
If the staff member had behaved in a manner that would near-universally been considered appropriate, then they would not be in this position.
I must admit I am never quite sure whether Francis is a parody or serious, however I think it would do some members of rail staff no harm to be reminded that they are there to serve the public, not the other way around.
It's a huge cultural challenge for the railways generally to understand that and to adjust longstanding attitudes and behaviours.
Indeed, if he's intending to make a point about staff professionalism, it could have been made without visually identifying the member of staff, using just the audio, or blurring out the staff member's face.
Six pages in and still people are trying to defend the indefensible. It doesn't matter whether Borgeoise was in the right or in the wrong. Whatever the circumstances, whatever the provocation there is no excuse for this sort of aggressive approach. Neither this staff member nor anyone on here defending his manner should be let anywhere near a customer facing role on the railway or anywhere else.
Six pages in and still people are trying to defend the indefensible. It doesn't matter whether Borgeoise was in the right or in the wrong. Whatever the circumstances, whatever the provocation there is no excuse for this sort of aggressive approach. Neither this staff member nor anyone on here defending his manner should be let anywhere near a customer facing role on the railway or anywhere else.
Six pages in and still people are trying to defend the indefensible. It doesn't matter whether Borgeoise was in the right or in the wrong. Whatever the circumstances, whatever the provocation there is no excuse for this sort of aggressive approach. Neither this staff member nor anyone on here defending his manner should be let anywhere near a customer facing role on the railway or anywhere else.
There are staff on the railway who act far more aggressively than that that get the full backing of their employing TOC if a complaint is made and it tends to be swept under the carpet.
The reality is the railway is not the hospitality industry and I suspect in places, there is a fear that disciplining staff for something of this nature will result in a much bigger headache for their management. Unless it can be used to fuel a case against an employee that the management already want out of the company.
Whether that’s how it should be is up for debate, but that’s how it is.
You are entitled to your opinions but I think the majority of people who see the video will not agree that "maybe" the behaviour of the staff member was acceptable and that Francis behaviour was irresponsible.
If the staff member had behaved in a manner that would near-universally been considered appropriate, then they would not be in this position.
I can’t see what happened on the platform. I can’t see the conversation before someone pulled out a camera.
I’m not prepared to condemn someone when I can’t see the whole picture. I’m not in the rail industry but if it were one of my staff I certainly wouldn’t judge them until getting all the facts.
I can’t see what happened on the platform. I can’t see the conversation before someone pulled out a camera.
I’m not prepared to condemn someone when I can’t see the whole picture. I’m not in the rail industry but if it were one of my staff I certainly wouldn’t judge them until getting all the facts.
What prior conversation would justify reacting in an out of control manner like that?
If I acted like that, even under extreme provocation (which we can surely rule out in this case), I would expect to be told by my boss that it was not appropriate behaviour.
I would never try to justify reacting like that, even for some hypothetical provocation that there is no evidence of occurring.
You are entitled to disagree with @RPM, @AlterEgo et.al. above, but this is clearly a minority view.
I think "out of control" is being a bit hyperbolic . Nothing I saw in the video indicated the staff member was "out of control" . Looked to me like they said what they felt they needed to and walked off . What they said might have been wrong , how they said it might have been out of order sure . But come off it , out of control suggests if the employer see it the staff member will be looking for another job . We all know that won't be the case here .
Frankly you seem all too aware of your supposed "rights" but to have zero visibility of your "responsibilities". I have zero time and less respect for such people.
"Francis" by being in the area, which was subject to safety restrictions he was ignoring, was potentially a danger to himself, the bunch of hangers-on with him and even possibly the staff who had to deal with the situation. Ever heard of "duty of care"? The staff have!
Oh and telling the staff member to **** off would likely result in BTP being called and you rightly being arrested and charged with a public order offence. Very possibly an injunction banning you from stations other than to board or leave a train too.
Oh and telling the staff member to **** off would likely result in BTP being called and you rightly being arrested and charged with a public order offence. Very possibly an injunction banning you from stations other than to board or leave a train too.
Look at Sections 4 and 5 of the Public Order Act 1986. In practice though l admit that you are likely correct that it is unlikely to arrested for swearing only once.
We are aware of an issue with emails from the Forum to Microsoft-based email accounts (hotmail/outlook/live.com email addresses). This is being looked into currently, thanks for your patience meanwhile.
