Poulton to Fleetwood reopening ?

[swanhill41]

I am aware that there is a Petition in circulation for the reopening of the above line as a passenger service.

As with all these wishes,the reality as opposed to the dream is that the line is a non-starter for numerous reasons. Although the line is intact from the disconnected junction at Poulton to Jameson Bridge Fleetwood, the rest of line to the docks area would have issues to re-instate.

But is there a need for it? There is a tram service from Fleetwood to North Pier Blackpool, where there will be a triangular junction for Blackpool North station.

Thornton station... Just as easy to drive to Poulton than catch a train.

The issue on the Fylde in particular in northern end is that houses are being built with no concern for upgrading the road system. The majority of commercial activity in Fleetwood is for Freeport, which will always be car users.

Check out, survey for possible use and then make a case if possible. I personally feel that if you checked out that need, you would be surprised if a rail line would make financial sense?

 

[NSEFAN]

Would it work if reopened as a tram route?

 

[Elecman]

Possibly yes

 

[6Gman]

But is there a need for it?....There is a tram service from Fleetwood to North Pier Blackpool,where there will be a triangular junction for Blackpool North station...
Thornton station...Just as easy to drive to Poulton than catch a train.

If you own a car ...

 

[LOL The Irony]

Would it work if reopened as a tram route?

Well a Tram-Train Poulton-Fleetwood Ferry could work.

 

[edwin_m]

Well a Tram-Train Poulton-Fleetwood Ferry could work.

For that sort of shuttle there's no need for the complication of a tram-train - there's no more heavy rail use for the railway so might as well convert it to light rail.

However I can't see it being viable, as from what I remember most of Poulton-Fleetwood is fairly undeveloped and the rest is close enough to the existing tramline, so it would have to survive on heavy rail interchange traffic plus a few local journeys. I'd have thought running the Fleetwood trams to Blackpool North station via the existing tramway and the authorised extension would be a good enough connection, although it seems they don't plan to provide through service as far as Fleetwood.

 

[Elecman]

Why a Tram Train, a pure Tram would be sufficient to Fleetwood as the route would not run on NR tracks

 

[deltic08]

You have all missed the point of reopening. It is to be a heritage railway using heritage diesels.

 

[LOL The Irony]

You have all missed the point of reopening. It is to be a heritage railway using heritage diesels.

I always thought that but the group looking after the project & the OP said/implied otherwise.

 

[swanhill41]

Why a Tram Train, a pure Tram would be sufficient to Fleetwood as the route would not run on NR tracks

Tram route at present is Fleetwood to Starr Gate Blackpool....There is a spur being built to open some time in 2019 to Blackpool North Station ...Trams will run direct from Fleetwood to the North Station...Cost 1/4 mile extension etc £22 million....Oh that includes two new trams already delivered in last 2 weeks.!

 

[swanhill41]

You have all missed the point of reopening. It is to be a heritage railway using heritage diesels.

Hmmm...The society has spent last 12 years doing nothing....Do not have operating contract with Network Rail and only have very basic agreement to clear the line between Thornton Station and a location called Jameson Bridge about mile short of Fleetwood/Wyre dock.....It would be physically impossible to go to old terminus at the Ferry /North Euston location....Its been built on or is the property of Associated British Ports .....Yes they have diesel shunter based at Burn Naze and DMU @Butterley that needs a lot of work doing on it.....Frankly they are not getting there!.......Very low profile in the area...

 

[swanhill41]

For that sort of shuttle there's no need for the complication of a tram-train - there's no more heavy rail use for the railway so might as well convert it to light rail.

However I can't see it being viable, as from what I remember most of Poulton-Fleetwood is fairly undeveloped and the rest is close enough to the existing tramline, so it would have to survive on heavy rail interchange traffic plus a few local journeys. I'd have thought running the Fleetwood trams to Blackpool North station via the existing tramway and the authorised extension would be a good enough connection, although it seems they don't plan to provide through service as far as Fleetwood.

That area has changed in last 16 years I have lived in area....Somewhere in the region of a 1000 house have been built....But these are car users,although bus service No 14 is very frequent and well used.

 

[edwin_m]

Tram route at present is Fleetwood to Starr Gate Blackpool....There is a spur being built to open some time in 2019 to Blackpool North Station ...Trams will run direct from Fleetwood to the North Station...Cost 1/4 mile extension etc £22 million....Oh that includes two new trams already delivered in last 2 weeks.!

According to a post on the relevant thread, the trams starting at Fleetwood will run along the sea front to Starr Gate as they do now, and the trams from North Station won't get as far as Fleetwood.

 

[PR1Berske]

I took this photograph of the severed Fleetwood link this summer. It's quite clear that aspirations for a reopened line are going to be distant dreams, forever phrased in crayon.

(Edit: link is to my Instagram account, the photo is of the severed Fleetwood link from the railway bridge at Poulton)


https://www.instagram.com/p/BW4goAylgos/

 

[Bevan Price]

I think the best prospects for a heritage line would initially be between Thornton station and Poulton Le Fylde, where it ought to be feasible to construct a heritage line platform within easy walking distance from the NR station. Apart from cash, the only problem might be the "road lobby" objecting to trains using the level crossing at Thornton station.

I understand that Burn Naze station site now lies within an industrial site; Fleetwood station site and trackbed is lost - mostly covered by roads, etc.; Wyre Dock station site is surrounded by roads, but I think there may just be space for a station -- not that I foresee a heritage line reaching there in the time of most people reading this....
(Wyre Dock was renamed Fleetwwod, after the main Fleetwood station was closed.)

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Tram route at present is Fleetwood to Starr Gate Blackpool....There is a spur being built to open some time in 2019 to Blackpool North Station ...Trams will run direct from Fleetwood to the North Station...Cost 1/4 mile extension etc £22 million....Oh that includes two new trams already delivered in last 2 weeks.!

As Edwin_m says, the trams will not run from Fleetwood directly to Blackpool North station. However, even if the people responsible for the tram timetable come to their senses and figure out a more reasonable timetable that does give direct Fleetwood-Blackpool North trams, you still have the problem that the tram takes 40 minutes from Fleetwood to Blackpool North Pier, a distance that looks on the map to be around 6 to 7 miles. It's not hard to see how a half-decent rail service could compare very favourably with that!

 

[LOL The Irony]

As Edwin_m says, the trams will not run from Fleetwood directly to Blackpool North station. However, even if the people responsible for the tram timetable come to their senses and figure out a more reasonable timetable that does give direct Fleetwood-Blackpool North trams, you still have the problem that the tram takes 40 minutes from Fleetwood to Blackpool North Pier, a distance that looks on the map to be around 6 to 7 miles. It's not hard to see how a half-decent rail service could compare very favourably with that!

That timing is for peak season. Go in off season & you could get to North Pier in 20.

 

[Codville]

20 minutes? Bit optimistic, takes 10-15m to get to Cleveleys.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I was talking about the last tram at night.

 

[Ships]

I took this photograph of the severed Fleetwood link this summer. It's quite clear that aspirations for a reopened line are going to be distant dreams, forever phrased in crayon.

(Edit: link is to my Instagram account, the photo is of the severed Fleetwood link from the railway bridge at Poulton)


https://www.instagram.com/p/BW4goAylgos/

What patronising drivel. The new layouts been designed with passive provision for a single lead junction to dropped in should the need arise. Hardly phrased in crayon.

 

[Elecman]

I think the passive provision is for a single tr@ck to be reinstated nex5 to th3 present up line where the old PWay cabin and signallers car parking was located

 

[roversfan2001]

I took this photograph of the severed Fleetwood link this summer. It's quite clear that aspirations for a reopened line are going to be distant dreams, forever phrased in crayon.

(Edit: link is to my Instagram account, the photo is of the severed Fleetwood link from the railway bridge at Poulton)


https://www.instagram.com/p/BW4goAylgos/

That's a cracking photo, just dropped you a follow. I didn't realise just how quickly the line went from an active line to the overgrown mess that is the Fleetwood branch!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

That timing is for peak season. Go in off season & you could get to North Pier in 20.

The winter timetable also shows about 40 minutes Fleetwood to North Pier.

20 minutes? Bit optmistic, takes 10-15m to get to Cleveleys.

I was talking about the last tram at night.

The timing for Monday-Friday last tram at night in winter is listed as leaving Fleetwood at 00:15, arriving at North Pier 00:53. Journey time 38 minutes. And even if it was faster, the journey time for the last tram at night is hardly very relevant to the journey times that most people actually experience is it!

 

[swanhill41]

As Edwin_m says, the trams will not run from Fleetwood directly to Blackpool North station. However, even if the people responsible for the tram timetable come to their senses and figure out a more reasonable timetable that does give direct Fleetwood-Blackpool North trams, you still have the problem that the tram takes 40 minutes from Fleetwood to Blackpool North Pier, a distance that looks on the map to be around 6 to 7 miles. It's not hard to see how a half-decent rail service could compare very favourably with that!

A few of you have said in your postings that it will not be possible to go direct from Fleetwood to Blackpool North direct without reversal at the North Pier...WRONG...There is being built a triangular junction there to access from south and north to the station.....

 

[roversfan2001]

A few of you have said in your postings that it will not be possible to go direct from Fleetwood to Blackpool North direct without reversal at the North Pier...WRONG...There is being built a triangular junction there to access from south and north to the station.....

I think people are saying that the trams won't be running that route in normal service, rather than it being physically impossible to do so.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

A few of you have said in your postings that it will not be possible to go direct from Fleetwood to Blackpool North direct without reversal at the North Pier...WRONG...There is being built a triangular junction there to access from south and north to the station.....

I think people are saying that the trams won't be running that route in normal service, rather than it being physically impossible to do so.

roversfan2001 is exactly correct. Noone has said that it's physically impossible for trams to get from Fleetwood to North station as clearly in principle it is possible. However, the proposed service pattern after the extension is opened does not envisage any such services. That's idiotic in my view, but there you go. It's what's being proposed.

 

[delticdave]

roversfan2001 is exactly correct. Noone has said that it's physically impossible for trams to get from Fleetwood to North station as clearly in principle it is possible. However, the proposed service pattern after the extension is opened does not envisage any such services. That's idiotic in my view, but there you go. It's what's being proposed.

I have recently read that Blackpool North Station services will be split evenly between Starr Gate & Fleetwood........

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I have recently read that Blackpool North Station services will be split evenly between Starr Gate & Fleetwood........

The document that people are going by is this one:

The proposed service pattern, showing no Fleetwood-station trams is on page 39. You are correct that they will be split evenly - the problem is those trams just won't go to the ends of the line (and they won't be very frequent). Note that it states elsewhere in the document that line T1 will not run via the station. Obviously if anything has changed recently then I'd love to know, but not heard anything.

 

[swanhill41]

If they they intend to run trams from the north,only from Bispham as opposed to Fleetwood then they are the usual stupid morons....Only in the summer is that required,as a lot of people only what to travel the Blackpool end...The tram systems travel profile has completly changed since 2010 with new trams....It has gone from an excellent museum tramway back to what it should be,a proper transport system,that passengers of all kinds can use safely and reliably....So frankly you can read Bispham ,but like a lot of documents cooked up by the theory mob,the people at BTS,the operating staff will no doubt put in a service that will start at Fleetwood and go to The North Station'....Make no sense otherwise...Why in build a triangular junction.?...Note that I speak as someone who lives within walking distance of the tramway at the Fleetwood end.....By the way do not confuse the areas on the line that the heritage fleet use,which is largely only to Bispham.

 

[QueensCurve]

What patronising drivel. The new layouts been designed with passive provision for a single lead junction to dropped in should the need arise. Hardly phrased in crayon.

I too disagree that it would be impossible to reinstate the branch if necessary. I do think we should at least try to be polite about it.