Potential Voyager Dawlish Workaround

[yorksrob]

I was reading in 'Rail' magazine that the MP for Plymouth and Devonport asked in the House whether XC could be forced to use newly redundant HST's to avoid Dawlish, rather than Voyagers with their iffy waterproofing.

Whilst the idea of XC replacing their Voyagers with HST's seems unlikely, would there be any merit in a unit being made up as a hot spare, which could be kept at Exeter and pressed into action to shuttle XC passengers to Plymouth in the event of weather.

Yes, it seems a lot, but if the stock is only going to store, why not !

 

[VT 390]

Why don't XC replace all there Edinburgh to Plymouth (and extensions) workings to HST sets, at least until they order new stock. This would not only solve the Dawlish problem but also increase capacity a lot as all North East to South West services would be 7/8 coach HST's which would release Voyagers which could mean current 4 car sets could become 5 and current 5 car sets could be 8 (4+4).

 

[yorksrob]

Why don't XC replace all there Edinburgh to Plymouth (and extensions) workings to HST sets, at least until they order new stock. This would not only solve the Dawlish problem but also increase capacity a lot as all North East to South West services would be 7/8 coach HST's which would release Voyagers which could mean current 4 car sets could become 5 and current 5 car sets could be 8 (4+4).

Yes, well that's what a lot of us would like. Doubt it will happen though

 

[AM9]

Why don't XC replace all there Edinburgh to Plymouth (and extensions) workings to HST sets, at least until they order new stock. This would not only solve the Dawlish problem but also increase capacity a lot as all North East to South West services would be 7/8 coach HST's which would release Voyagers which could mean current 4 car sets could become 5 and current 5 car sets could be 8 (4+4).

Because it would increase their operating costs, both in leasing charges and maintenancle. Apart from when the sea is breaking over the sea wall at Dawlish, the Voyagers give much more reliable performance over the Devon banks than 40 year old HSTs.

 

[Ianno87]

Because it would increase their operating costs, both in leasing charges and maintenancle. Apart from when the sea is breaking over the sea wall at Dawlish, the Voyagers give much more reliable performance over the Devon banks than 40 year old HSTs.

And, Dawlish aside, do Voyagers break down less on the rest of the network than HSTs?

 

[43096]

Why don't XC replace all there Edinburgh to Plymouth (and extensions) workings to HST sets, at least until they order new stock. This would not only solve the Dawlish problem but also increase capacity a lot as all North East to South West services would be 7/8 coach HST's which would release Voyagers which could mean current 4 car sets could become 5 and current 5 car sets could be 8 (4+4).

You need to address that question to the DfT, not XC, as DfT make the decisions on fleet sizes.

 

[yorksrob]

Because it would increase their operating costs, both in leasing charges and maintenancle. Apart from when the sea is breaking over the sea wall at Dawlish, the Voyagers give much more reliable performance over the Devon banks than 40 year old HSTs.

That's as maybe, but the 40 year old HST's don't have to stop at Exeter everytime there's a storm.

Put it anotherway. Overall, the Voyagers are more reliable across the XC network than HST's, but Dawlish is the achillees heel.

We don't know whare a HST is more likely to break down because it could be anywhere, so there's no way to mitigate that with a spare Voyager.

Whereas we know where Dawlish is, so it's easy to target resources at the weakest area.

 

[30907]

That's as maybe, but the 40 year old HST's don't have to stop at Exeter everytime there's a storm.

Put it anotherway. Overall, the Voyagers are more reliable across the XC network than HST's, but Dawlish is the achillees heel.

We don't know whare a HST is more likely to break down because it could be anywhere, so there's no way to mitigate that with a spare Voyager.

Whereas we know where Dawlish is, so it's easy to target resources at the weakest area.

I like the idea, but as there is at least one GWR train per hour West of Exeter (and more to come), passengers would only save 20 minutes or so.
The Dawlish issue is very seasonal so it doesn't strike me as a good use of resources.
What might work is for XC to spot-hire a GW mini HST or two every time there's a spring tide or winter storm - but that would cost them money so...

 

[yorksrob]

I like the idea, but as there is at least one GWR train per hour West of Exeter (and more to come), passengers would only save 20 minutes or so.
The Dawlish issue is very seasonal so it doesn't strike me as a good use of resources.
What might work is for XC to spot-hire a GW mini HST or two every time there's a spring tide or winter storm - but that would cost them money so...

Indeed, and it would also leave Great Western short !

 

[richw]

An 800 suffered voyager like symptoms this week at Dawlish. No such issues with the 802s though

 

[MarkyT]

Seeing as the 2+4 HSTs are supposed to be predominantly deployed on GW Plymouth/Cornwall - Cardiff diagrams, in the event of Voyager weather troubles west of Exeter I suggest the XC and GW services are both terminated at Exeter with the units swapping duties. Voyagers released by short termination take over the GW Exeter - Cardiff leg while the HSTs fill in on the XC diagrams along the sea wall.

 

[Modron]

Seeing as the 2+4 HSTs are supposed to be predominantly deployed on GW Plymouth/Cornwall - Cardiff diagrams, in the event of Voyager weather troubles west of Exeter I suggest the XC and GW services are both terminated at Exeter with the units swapping duties. Voyagers released by short termination take over the GW Exeter - Cardiff leg while the HSTs fill in on the XC diagrams along the sea wall.

That would be a fantastic example of TOC co-operation!

As an aside, would it be an idea to either:

a) Rebuild the Heathfield line (Exeter-Newton Abbott) as the dedicated fast line, thereby avoiding Dawlish but still leaving the coastal line open to local services or trains which can withstand what the English Channel throws at it?

b) Sink a tunnel between just outside Newton Abbot and Exminster, and use this line instead of the coastal line?

 

[MarkyT]

As an aside, would it be an idea to either:
a) Rebuild the Heathfield line (Exeter-Newton Abbott) as the dedicated fast line, thereby avoiding Dawlish but still leaving the coastal line open to local services or trains which can withstand what the English Channel throws at it?
b) Sink a tunnel between just outside Newton Abbot and Exminster, and use this line instead of the coastal line?

a) The original very slow and roundabout Teign Valley route is a complete non starter, as the alignment has been largely destroyed and was prone to flooding anyway.
b) Something like this as a new higher speed Dawlish Avoiding Line would be my long term preference, but practically this could be more than a decade away. Precise details of route could vary, but high speed and weather proof would be the primary aims and it would allow expresses on the new fasts to overtake stoppers remaining on the coastal route and help to improve rather uncompetitive journey times in the area due to the limited speed and roundabout route of the sea wall line. There are other threads on this subject.

 

[gingertom]

a new higher speed Dawlish Avoiding Line would be my long term preference, but practically this could be more than a decade away

but Orange army TBMs and spades in the ground would sent the message "we're fixing it".

 

[Meerkat]

Probably a stupid question but how expensive would a technical solution to the Voyagers be....is it even possible?

 

[gingertom]

Probably a stupid question but how expensive would a technical solution to the Voyagers be....is it even possible?

I've no doubt there is a technical solution.... at a price that makes bustitution to/from Exeter on the occasions needed cheaper.

 

[30907]

I've no doubt there is a technical solution.... at a price that makes bustitution to/from Exeter on the occasions needed cheaper.

They don't even bustitute AFAIK as GWR keep running 95% of the time.