• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Potential short line dualling

Status
Not open for further replies.

LE Greys

Established Member
Joined
6 Mar 2010
Messages
5,389
Location
Hitchin
Which short sections of single line can be dualled to make a big difference to services? OK, I'm not talking about the whole line between Salisbury and Exeter, Oxford and Worcester or any of the other big schemes. More about little bits like Aberdeen-Dyce, where a short section of double track could increase service reliablility no-end. For instance, a train running a bit slow on an Edinburgh-Dyce can hold up an incoming Inverness-Aberdeen which has run on time for almost the entire journey. Because of this being a single-track line, the ripple effects can go on for the whole day right back to Inverness.

Anywhere else in mind?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Ivo

Established Member
Joined
8 Jan 2010
Messages
7,307
Location
Bath (or Southend)
Romford to Upminster (if there is enough space). Then connect it to the GEML and run through services between Upminster and Liverpool Street stopping at all stations. This would allow Gidea Park, Harold Wood and Brentwood a faster service than at present.

...although by the time Crossrail opens such a plan would be rendered pointless.
 

Zoe

Established Member
Joined
22 Aug 2008
Messages
5,905
This would allow Gidea Park, Harold Wood and Brentwood a faster service than at present.
You can do that much easier and without wasting money doubling the line between Romford and Upminster which off peak only carries a handful of passengers.

Just go back to the pre-1998 timetbale of all stations Liverpool Street to Gidea Park and Stratford, Ilfrod, Romford and all stations to Southend Victoria. It worked for almost 40 years. Southend could also have an additional fast service like it did in the early 1990s which would be first stop Billericay. In that case one of the Southend Victoria semi-fast services could be diverted to Southminster.
 

tbtc

Veteran Member
Joined
16 Dec 2008
Messages
18,051
Location
Reston City Centre
Dore chord. It's a single track chord at a busy junction which sees up to six passenger trains an hour (up to two of which stop at the station on the single track section), as well as plenty Hope Valley freight.

If you wanted to design a bottleneck it would look like this!

(or the single track Holmes Chord into Rotherham, which sees six passenger trains an hour compete for paths, which limits the number of trains that can serve Rotherham)
 

bnm

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2009
Messages
4,992
Worcester Shrub Hill - Worcester Foregate Street.
 

fairliered

Member
Joined
11 Sep 2011
Messages
46
Location
Ayrshire
Saltcoats - Hunterston. At present it is 2 parallel single tracks. Only 1 is electrified. The other is used for freight only - except that most coal trains use the electrified line. Largs trains are often terminated at Kilwinning due to capacity restrictions. This has featured in most editions of the "Largs & Millport Weekly News" as the service has been abysmal for months. The Hunterston - Largs section could easily be redoubled, but using the existing Saltcoats - Hunterston tracks more efficiently would provide an even quicker return.

Incidentally, there i s a feeling locally that trains are cancelled if delays are likely, as this doesn't affect reliability statistics. Is this true, and if so, does it happen anywhere else?
 

jopsuk

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2008
Messages
12,774
A couple I can think of that would involve major works to improve a short section:
Montrose basin- line should be double track all the way from Dundee to Dyce
Tamar crossing. The only possible solution I could see being acceptable would be a replica bridge alongside the original- modern construction materials, but made to look identical.
 

John55

Member
Joined
24 Jun 2011
Messages
800
Location
South East
"Incidentally, there is a feeling locally that trains are cancelled if delays are likely, as this doesn't affect reliability statistics. Is this true, and if so, does it happen anywhere else?"

Calculation of PPM from the NR website

"PPM methodology

PPM combines figures for punctuality and reliability into a single performance measure.

PPM measures the performance of individual trains advertised as passenger services against their planned timetable as agreed between the Operator and Network Rail at 22:00 the night before.

PPM is therefore the percentage of trains ‘on time’ compared to the total number of trains planned.

A train is defined as ‘on time’ if it arrives within five minutes (i.e. 4 minutes 59 seconds or less) of the planned destination arrival time for London and South East or regional services, or 10 minutes (i.e. 9 minutes 59 seconds or less) for long distance services.

Where a train fails to run its entire planned route calling at all timetables stations it will count as a PPM failure."

From this it can be seen that a train turning short of the intended destination counts as two PPM failures.

Trains turning short is common on the railway network as it is often the only immediate way of recovering the timetable. The other common practice is to take a train out of service run it non stop through part of the route until it has caught up with the timetable and then restarts the timetabled service. This also counts as a PPM failure.
 

LE Greys

Established Member
Joined
6 Mar 2010
Messages
5,389
Location
Hitchin
A couple I can think of that would involve major works to improve a short section:
Montrose basin- line should be double track all the way from Dundee to Dyce
Tamar crossing. The only possible solution I could see being acceptable would be a replica bridge alongside the original- modern construction materials, but made to look identical.

Originally, the Royal Albert Bridge was going to be double-track, but Brunel had budget problems (possibly as a result of the atmospheric experiment) so he compromised on single-track. Nice.

Speaking of viaducts, I've always wondered why Ribblehead was singled.
 

ushawk

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2010
Messages
1,965
Location
Eastbourne
Marshlink, some bits are double track while some arent. If an Ashford bound service gets delayed betwen Hastings and Rye then the Brighton bound service has to be held at Rye, delaying that.

Maybe electrify it too perhaps and link it in with the current Southern services.
 

O L Leigh

Established Member
Joined
20 Jan 2006
Messages
5,609
Location
In the cab with the paper
The tunnel at Stansted Airport.

Mind you that would require another great big hole to be bashed into the ground first, but it does at least meet the OP's specifications of a short section of single line that could be doubled to make a big improvement.

O L Leigh
 

sprinterguy

Veteran Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
11,567
Location
Macclesfield
Speaking of viaducts, I've always wondered why Ribblehead was singled.
In order to both reduce and equalise the stresses on the viaduct by allowing only one train to cross at a time and being able to lay the single line along the centreline of the viaduct. This was during the period in the early to mid eighties when BR were describing the viaduct as a crumbling wreck due to water ingress into the structure thanks to gaps in the bridge decking, as part of their attempts to close the line.
 
Joined
6 Sep 2011
Messages
989
Location
Blackpool south Shore
Originally, the Royal Albert Bridge was going to be double-track, but Brunel had budget problems (possibly as a result of the atmospheric experiment) so he compromised on single-track. Nice.

The single track used to be just on the Royal Albert Bridge itself. In the 70's BR when replacing the bridges over the Southern railway (Now Gunislake branch) decided to economize and replace one only, and extend the single track to that point. The speed restrictions on the bridge, and the approaches were increased.
The best way to have double track imo would be a joint scheme with a new road bridge with rail under. Many moons away!!

Blackpool South to Kirkham should never have been singled.
 
Last edited:

asylumxl

Established Member
Joined
12 Feb 2009
Messages
4,260
Location
Hiding in your shadow
While I realise things will be changing, the short single section between London Bridge and London Blackfriars for TL. Should never have been done in the first place.
 

jopsuk

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2008
Messages
12,774
The tunnel at Stansted Airport.

Mind you that would require another great big hole to be bashed into the ground first, but it does at least meet the OP's specifications of a short section of single line that could be doubled to make a big improvement.

O L Leigh

Hey, plenty of other suggestions involve building big bridges (mine especially), so I reckon your suggestion is as valid. And needed, perhaps more. Not sure it would help this morning however!
 

LE Greys

Established Member
Joined
6 Mar 2010
Messages
5,389
Location
Hitchin
The tunnel at Stansted Airport.

Mind you that would require another great big hole to be bashed into the ground first, but it does at least meet the OP's specifications of a short section of single line that could be doubled to make a big improvement.

O L Leigh

Perfectly valid, it's the result of another short-sighted bit of cost-saving. Not sure if it's possible with a runway over the top, though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
While I realise things will be changing, the short single section between London Bridge and London Blackfriars for TL. Should never have been done in the first place.

Wasn't that an old ECS only spur that they decided to bring into passenger use?
 

Requeststop

Member
Joined
21 Jan 2012
Messages
1,000
Location
Carbis Bay, St Ives, Cornwall
getting back to making the big difference - how about Risca South Jn. through Rogerstone Station to Park North Jn, and Park Jn to Gaer Jn to give the chance of a much better chance of a Newport-Ebbw Vale Service?
 

Nym

Established Member
Joined
2 Mar 2007
Messages
9,784
Location
Somewhere, not in London
Bolton - Blackburn to double track please....

At the moment the single track sections mean that anything being late can completely screw the whole Bolton - Windsor Bridge timetable..
 

185

On Moderation
Joined
29 Aug 2010
Messages
5,709
Chester Wrexham should be a priority one job.

The traffic on the adjacent road could be hugely cut, and there would then be scope for four additional stations on the route including one within near reach of Chester Business Park, a major employment area, this would be next to the busy A55, for P&R.
 

Eagle

Established Member
Joined
20 Feb 2011
Messages
7,106
Location
Leamingrad / Blanfrancisco
Moreton to Dorchester South - should never have been singled.

Doesn't actually need it though; the current timetable works fine, and there's no need for more trains to Weymouth as it is...

And of course there's no scope for freight round Dorchester anyway.



My votes are for Milverton to Gibbet Hill, and the Syston south to east curve.
 

atomicdanny

Member
Joined
7 Mar 2010
Messages
542
Location
Kent, UK
My Votes would be the Signal line sections of the Uckfield Line as well as the Marshlink line (and of course electrify both of those) Although what about the single line section near Weymouth? All mentioned above but would mean Southern's 171s going to better places!

Another random one Cannon Street to Moorgate ? although that one would probably cost way too much (but that isn't doubling track but new track all together!)
 

185

On Moderation
Joined
29 Aug 2010
Messages
5,709
(Chester/Wrexham) Will happen, apparently has moved into GRIP 5-8 so it is pretty much a cert..

I think the only thing that has held this valuable project back for so long is that it's on the border - the Welsh assembly didn't see the massive advantage of it as it heads out of their jurisdiction. CW & Chester Council didn't really back it as they don't seem to care about public transport anymore.

Of note, there is space to easily reintroduce 3, or all 4 of the four track section from Saltney Junction all the way into Chester Station, of which just under a mile is missing; the disused second bridge over the Dee is in pretty good nick. An extra bay platform could be easily reintroduced in Chester General.

There could also be a single, island platform at or near the racecourse, which would take some traffic off the streets of Chester on racedays.
 

Waddon

Member
Joined
15 Sep 2009
Messages
469
Not national rail exactly, but the sections of single track DLR out of Stratford
 

judethegreat

Member
Joined
21 Mar 2011
Messages
163
Another random one Cannon Street to Moorgate ? although that one would probably cost way too much (but that isn't doubling track but new track all together!)[/QUOTE]
I've thought of that aswell :)
 

The Planner

Veteran Member
Joined
15 Apr 2008
Messages
19,653
I think the only thing that has held this valuable project back for so long is that it's on the border - the Welsh assembly didn't see the massive advantage of it as it heads out of their jurisdiction. CW & Chester Council didn't really back it as they don't seem to care about public transport anymore.

Other way around, it was the WAG that pushed it and stumped up the cash, no one else including NR were really bothered about it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top