Potential rolling stock transfers to/from EMR?

[DDB]

What I've never been able to understand is how EMR were able to win the franchise bid with a rolling stock plan that required the ex Southern 171s when there was no obvious replacements for that fleet lined up - even before the decision for them to keep the Liverpool - Nottingham service made that problem even worse.

Persumably EMR have a contract with the rolling stock owners for those units from some date in the future.

 

[tbtc]

It's not "perfect" but if the twenty Southern 171s are unavailable then surely one option would be for EMR to get the sixteen Northern 170s instead?

Given that the EMR franchise have a lot of 156/158s to give up, all of which would be easily absorbed in the Northern fleet - whereas the 170s are non-standard at Northern - that seems a reasonably neat option (compared to some of the things being suggested on here, which involve giving TOCs trains that they've never operated before).

(I think that there are fifty six carriages at Southern, whereas Northern only have forty eight carriages, admittedly)

 

[raetiamann]

Do EMR share that desire?

I've not heard a comment either way, so can't add anything further there.

 

[Kieran1990]

What I feel could happen
Splitting of the Liv-Norwich at Nottingham- Class 185’s come in based at Adwick in Manchester
158’s retained to supplement the Class 170s until southern can release the class 171s

Northern are taking the Class 156s

 

[Energy]

Northern are taking the Class 156s

Only the ex-GA ones I believe.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Only the ex-GA ones I believe.

No, a number of the others too, although none of the ex-Northern ones

 

[43074]

What I feel could happen
Splitting of the Liv-Norwich at Nottingham- Class 185’s come in based at Adwick in Manchester
158’s retained to supplement the Class 170s until southern can release the class 171s

Northern are taking the Class 156s

Yes, I would expect that too.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

What I've never been able to understand is how EMR were able to win the franchise bid with a rolling stock plan that required the ex Southern 171s when there was no obvious replacements for that fleet lined up - even before the decision for them to keep the Liverpool - Nottingham service made that problem even worse.

Because the 171s had a lease expiry date and the rolling stock companies were keen to sign up a new lease for their expensive assets.

 

[craigybagel]

Because the 171s had a lease expiry date and the rolling stock companies were keen to sign up a new lease for their expensive assets.

I see. So is there anything to stop the 170s transferring to EMR at the end of their current lease and Southern being left short, other than common sense and/or government intervention? I thought it was part of franchise bids that if you wanted to use stock currently used by another TOC you had to suggest realistic alternatives for them to use, regardless of when the leases are due to expire?

 

[43096]

Only the ex-GA ones I believe.

All the ex-GA ones plus 6 of the native East Midlands ones. All 15 are leased to Northern now and sub-leased back to EMR.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I see. So is there anything to stop the 170s transferring to EMR at the end of their current lease and Southern being left short, other than common sense and/or government intervention? I thought it was part of franchise bids that if you wanted to use stock currently used by another TOC you had to suggest realistic alternatives for them to use, regardless of when the leases are due to expire?

That requirement has been in some bids but not all bids.

In reality with all franchises on some form of emergency contract leaving one operator short of stock for now is unlikely to happen.