Potential Rail Disruption from Storm Angus - 20/11

[Robertj21a]

Yes, my point was that a decision not to run trains shouldn't have been taken the night before.

And yes if there is no significant wind surely it is reasonable to assume that no trees will be down? The alternative would be to run no trains before 10.00 on a regular basis during winter.

Is it just me who feels that this is simply going round and round in circles ?

 

[EM2]

Yes, my point was that a decision not to run trains shouldn't have been taken the night before.

And yes if there is no significant wind surely it is reasonable to assume that no trees will be down? The alternative would be to run no trains before 10.00 on a regular basis during winter.

So when do you take the decision? You still need to check the lines anyway so can't run service trains, and by which time customers have already headed to the station?
Assuming is a dangerous thing to do.

 

[Antman]

Is it just me who feels that this is simply going round and round in circles ?

No it isn't just you.

 

[Darandio]

Is it just me who feels that this is simply going round and round in circles ?

Of course it's not only you, but it will only be resolved when 'Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells' is told they are right.

 

[Antman]

So when do you take the decision? You still need to check the lines anyway so can't run service trains, and by which time customers have already headed to the station?
Assuming is a dangerous thing to do.

Obviously in the morning, plan for a normal day but obviously if there are trees down then trains cannot run.

I'll just conclude by asking why you need to check lines if there has been no extreme weather, unless you think that lines should be checked every day before services commence in winter?

 

[carriageline]

Antman,

There was a storm. Therefore high winds and poor weather were predicted. That was pretty much a blanket thing across the south east.

Of course, it's not going to be 60/70mph winds all over the south east. But how would people in control know that (located in London)? At certain points, very high winds were being measured.

I can see the points you make, and have sympathy to a point. There was areas that were badly hit (where running ECS sweeper trains definitely stopped people getting hurt, as they found downed trees, and not even a million miles from ashford!!) , and there was areas where nothing at all was found.

I'll ask you in a politer way, as people do seem to jump down throats for no real reason after a while. What would you of proposed Antman?

People in charge won't know the smaller areas that are not affected by high winds, and those that are not.

I'm sure you agree it's better to take the risk and assume the worst, rather than have a train hit a tree at 90mph? Fair enough, if no sign of a storm was shown, but as certain areas (where recording equipment was located) were taking a battering, its quite a reasonable decision to expect the majority of the affected areas to be hit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[EM2]

Obviously in the morning, plan for a normal day but obviously if there are trees down then trains cannot run.

I'll just conclude by asking why you need to check lines if there has been no extreme weather, unless you think that lines should be checked every day before services commence in winter?

Extreme weather had been *forecast*. The people that make these decisions based on those forecasts are not stood outside on platforms or bridges watching the rain fall or the wind blow (or not, as the case may be).
They have to have a cut-off point, trust the people that make those forecasts and make decisions based on that. Whatever the weather turns out to be, it's guaranteed to be safe, with the proviso that if the weather is better than expected people will have no trains.
If they make the decision late, then whatever the weather turns out to be, it can't be guaranteed to be safe, because there could be all sorts of damage caused, but you haven't told people that there's no trains so they turn up at the station and get annoyed when nothing is running.
Lines should be checked every day before service when extreme (for the UK) weather is forecast.

 

[PHILIPE]

The Southwest has also been hit hard, yesterday evening delays of 4 hours+ in Cornwall due to poor adhesion. The Looe branch has been cancelled until at least tomorrow morning due to flooding, a landslip AND flooding in 2 separate locations in the Chipping Sodbury area with GWR services diverting via Hullavington and PAD - Cardiffs cancelled.

Do you mean diverting away from Hullavington ? This is on the Chipping Sodbury route. Diverting via Bath

 

[Southwest]

Should be alright, just a bit wet. Worse seems to be south of London.

Oh well, I'm out of Paddington tomorrow at 9am bound for Bristol, let's see what the weather can throw my way.

 

[221129]

Do you mean diverting away from Hullavington ? This is on the Chipping Sodbury route. Diverting via Bath

Pass, all i know is it is causing disruption to XC services at Bristol Parkway, although that could be services setting back.

Taunton - Bristol is also now affected at uphill and Flax Bourton. 5mph speed restriction on both Up and Down mains at Flax Bourton, Uphill remains closed.

Also flooding at Cranbrook closed the West of England between Honiton & Exeter.

 

[louis97]

Pass, all i know is it is causing disruption to XC services at Bristol Parkway, although that could be services setting back.

Taunton - Bristol is also now affected at uphill and Flax Bourton. 5mph speed restriction on both Up and Down mains at Flax Bourton, Uphill remains closed.

Also flooding at Cranbrook closed the West of England between Honiton & Exeter.

Flooding near Bruton between Castle Cary and Westbury too. For an hour or so, both routes between Taunton and London were blocked.

 

[83G/84D]

Flood water encroaching on to the railway and affecting services between Woodborough & Lavington, Bruton & Castle Cary and at Melksham.

 

[alb1]

Pass, all i know is it is causing disruption to XC services at Bristol Parkway, although that could be services setting back.

Latest from GWR is that Swindon - Bristol Parkway and Swindon - Bath are both closed. At a guess the Swansea services must be going via Gloucester now.

https://twitter.com/GWRHelp/status/800729245966303232

 

[bangor-toad]

Routes west don't seem too good. I'm stuck on a GWR service to Bristol Temple Meads just outside Didcot. Apparently all routes west currently flooded.

Looms like a looong afternoon / evening... Glad I had lunch before I left

Mr Toad

 

[221129]

GWR Customer advice for Taunton - Bristol

Customers with tickets for travel today Monday 21st of November who have been unable to or do not want to travel due to flooding may use tickets on Tuesday 22nd November.
the buses of Somerset routes 21, 21A, 21C: Taunton (Bus Stn) - Bridgwater (Bus Stn) - Highbridge & Burnham - Weston-Super-Mare, First Bus route 126: Weston-Super-Mare (Alexandra Parade) - Weston Milton (The Borough Arms), First Bus route X1: Weston-Super-Mare - Weston Milton - Worle - Nailsea & Backwell (Crossroads) - Bristol (Bus Station Bay 9), First Bus route X5: Weston-Super-Mare (Oxford Street) - Weston Milton - Worle - Bristol Parkway, First Bus route X6A: Yatton (Station) - Nailsea & Backwell (Clevedon Road) - Bristol (Centre), First Bus routes X8: Bristol (Bus Station Bay 11) - Nailsea & Backwell (Station) and First Bus routes X9: Bristol (Bus Station Bay 11) - Nailsea are conveying passengers via any reasonable route until further notice.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Routes west don't seem too good. I'm stuck on a GWR service to Bristol Temple Meads just outside Didcot. Apparently all routes west currently flooded.

Looms like a looong afternoon / evening... Glad I had lunch before I left

Mr Toad

I wish you luck! It sounds like you'll need it as very little chance of getting road transport due to road conditions.

ETA - Badminton route now open at caution.

 

[D1009]

Routes west don't seem too good. I'm stuck on a GWR service to Bristol Temple Meads just outside Didcot. Apparently all routes west currently flooded.

Looms like a looong afternoon / evening... Glad I had lunch before I left

Mr Toad

Padd to Bristol trains are getting through, though 1C17 1400 Padd has been diverted from Thingley Jn to reverse at Bradford Jn, and 1C18 1430 Padd has gone via Badminton.

 

[6Gman]

Yes, my point was that a decision not to run trains shouldn't have been taken the night before.

So when should it have been taken?

2am? 4am? 6am?

How do you communicate a decision made at 4am to the public? (Most of whom will be asleep.)

How do you create contingency plans for each cut-off? (Bearing in mind that the railway relies on stock and traincrew diagrams which cannot be recast at a moment's notice.)

Edit: I've now seen your suggestion of "in the morning", which sounds reasonable but actually doesn't help! We are not talking about an office or shop that is shut at 0759 but open at 0801. We are talking about a system which starts from a range of different locations at a range of different times. I'm not familiar with the South East but I would assume traincrew at Ramsgate are booking on from 0500 ish and trains are moving by 0530 ish. It will be dark; it was blowing - hard - in some areas. In all conscience can you really tell Driver Smith [a flesh and bones person] to point his train and its passengers toward Ashford, or Dover, or Faversham on the basis of "seems ok here and somebody in Deal has tweeted that it's not blowing too badly there" ?

 

[embers25]

GWR Customer advice for Taunton - Bristol


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I wish you luck! It sounds like you'll need it as very little chance of getting road transport due to road conditions.

ETA - Badminton route now open at caution.

A30 also flooded affecting SWT replacement buses and local buses. Most local road also flooded in east devon as the rain has been relentless the last three days. Westcountry effectively cut off already and it's only November...Ironically Cowley Bridge and Dawlish are still open!!!

 

[221129]

A30 also flooded affecting SWT replacement buses and local buses. Most local road also flooded in east devon as the rain has been relentless the last three days. Westcountry effectively cut off already and it's only November...Ironically Cowley Bridge and Dawlish are still open!!!

Cowley should be alright after the works to protect it, and Dawlish shouldn't be much of an issue unless the Wind picks up. The biggest problem down here at the moment is the endless rain.

 

[bangor-toad]

Padd to Bristol trains are getting through, though 1C17 1400 Padd has been diverted from Thingley Jn to reverse at Bradford Jn, and 1C18 1430 Padd has gone via Badminton.

I'm on the 15:00. The train manager has been good with updates & it seems we're off through Melksham & reversing after Bradford Junc.

Slow but at least we're getting there. Kudos to whoever's working out how to deal with a the trouble today.
(Shame my first trip through Melksham is in the dark but at least it's a bit different...)

 

[infoman]

BBC radio bristol reporting Bristol Temple meads station has been closed for safety reasons.

 

[221129]

Crosscountry to divert via Westbury where route knowledge allows.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

BBC radio bristol reporting Bristol Temple meads station has been closed for safety reasons.

Queing system in place at Bristol TM due to overcrowding.

 

[PHILIPE]

Crosscountry to divert via Westbury where route knowledge allows.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Queing system in place at Bristol TM due to overcrowding.

Don't know how XC diverting diverting via Westbury when Castle Cary closed.

 

[221129]

Flooding affecting services on the heart of Wales line too.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Don't know how XC diverting diverting via Westbury when Castle Cary closed.

It's re opened.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also serious collision on the M5 likely to affect the very limited Rail replacement services between Taunton & Weston/Bristol in both directions.

 

[Antman]

So when should it have been taken?

2am? 4am? 6am?

How do you communicate a decision made at 4am to the public? (Most of whom will be asleep.)

How do you create contingency plans for each cut-off? (Bearing in mind that the railway relies on stock and traincrew diagrams which cannot be recast at a moment's notice.)

Edit: I've now seen your suggestion of "in the morning", which sounds reasonable but actually doesn't help! We are not talking about an office or shop that is shut at 0759 but open at 0801. We are talking about a system which starts from a range of different locations at a range of different times. I'm not familiar with the South East but I would assume traincrew at Ramsgate are booking on from 0500 ish and trains are moving by 0530 ish. It will be dark; it was blowing - hard - in some areas. In all conscience can you really tell Driver Smith [a flesh and bones person] to point his train and its passengers toward Ashford, or Dover, or Faversham on the basis of "seems ok here and somebody in Deal has tweeted that it's not blowing too badly there" ?

You treat it as a normal day, if at the start of service lines are blocked by fallen trees then obviously you can't run trains, on the other hand if there has been no extreme weather overnight then it's business as usual. I don't understand the logic of your question?

 

[221129]

https://twitter.com/SW_Trains/status/800751130762420224

The flooding at Whimple on the West of England Mainline.

 

[EM2]

You treat it as a normal day, if at the start of service lines are blocked by fallen trees then obviously you can't run trains, on the other hand if there has been no extreme weather overnight then it's business as usual. I don't understand the logic of your question?

If you treat it as a normal day, when do you find out that lines are blocked by trains? When a train runs into them.

 

[Kite159]

A couple XC voyagers heard to be diverted via Laverstock due to the single track working around Micheldever

 

[Antman]

If you treat it as a normal day, when do you find out that lines are blocked by trains? When a train runs into them.

As I've said I know how many times, there was no extreme weather in Kent other than on the coast.

 

[221129]

As I've said I know how many times, there was no extreme weather in Kent other than on the coast.

But the forecast said differently.