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Potential Double-stack Rail Transport

matt99001

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I am just wondering if there are any potential double stack container rail routes within the UK. I'm based in Bristol and thought about a potential route from Western Gateway's proposed Avonmouth docks to the Midlands (Northampton/Daventry).

Thoughts? I would imagine due to steep gradients (up and down) that the trains would move very slowly.
 
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swt_passenger

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I am just wondering if there are any potential double stack container rail routes within the UK. I'm based in Bristol and thought about a potential route from Western Gateway's proposed Avonmouth docks to the Midlands (Northampton/Daventry).

Thoughts? I would imagine due to steep gradients (up and down) that the trains would move very slowly.
No chance whatsoever. There’s no route in the country where the gauge would allow it. Gradients and train weight wouldn’t even need considering if you can’t get through bridges, tunnels, or past platform canopies.
 

Zomboid

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Gradients wouldn't be an issue, once you've rebuilt every single structure you could just stick 7 SD90s on the front.
 

matt99001

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Not sure what that actualy accomplishes as the SD90s are from USA and not compatible with our railway - think of the width of the units and how they will clash with a platform edge as they go past.
 

Zomboid

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Not sure what that actualy accomplishes as the SD90s are from USA and not compatible with our railway - think of the width of the units and how they will clash with a platform edge as they go past.
They'll be fine once the railway has been rebuilt for double stacks.
 

JamesT

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You could fit them on HS1 and HS2.
No, you couldn’t. Double stacked containers are taller than typical OHLE height. I don’t think they would even go through the Channel Tunnel, which has an exceptionally high catenary height.
 

MarkyT

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India is developing double-stack, as one new traffic type, as well as more widespread RORO truck services, on a network of mostly new dedicated trunk freight corridors built to high and wide loading gauge. All are overhead-electrified, which they manage using a custom 'high-rise' pantograph that will also allow other lines' clearances to be progressively enhanced, for double-deck passenger trains, for example, and a greater reach for the larger freights.
 

HSTEd

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Even the Channel tunnel probably can't stack two high cube containers, only one high cube and one regular , with modifications to increase the contact wire height.

It's not really tenable without massive construction of new freight routes. In that case I'd be more interested in extending LeShuttle to North of London
 

JamesT

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If you’re looking at double stacking, that implies you’ve otherwise run out of capacity. Are there freight routes where every train is maximum length and every possible path is already used?
 

matt99001

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If you’re looking at double stacking, that implies you’ve otherwise run out of capacity. Are there freight routes where every train is maximum length and every possible path is already used?

Not necessarily, it was more of a curious question and me wondering if it was at all possible on some routes.

I would love to see less HGV's on the road and better use of rail, rail accounts for ~12% of containers onward movement at some ports so I'm wondering about other possibilities to shift the load.
 

The Planner

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If you’re looking at double stacking, that implies you’ve otherwise run out of capacity. Are there freight routes where every train is maximum length and every possible path is already used?
775m is the theoretical max currently, you can run longer but it constrains you even more.
 

Sun Chariot

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Not necessarily, it was more of a curious question and me wondering if it was at all possible on some routes.
Putting aside the absence of infrastructure spacious enough, anywhere in the UK:

Double-stacking - in USA, Canada, India - is a solution, to the long transit distances and (compared to UK) comparatively infrequent services (origin-to-destination).

The UK's distances are far shorter and the train paths (origin-to-destination) are more frequent. Thus the UK does not have the "need" for the solution offered by double-stacking.
 

The exile

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Not necessarily, it was more of a curious question and me wondering if it was at all possible on some routes.

I would love to see less HGV's on the road and better use of rail, rail accounts for ~12% of containers onward movement at some ports so I'm wondering about other possibilities to shift the load.
One of the issues is the diversity of destinations in a country where virtually all journeys are short-haul if not exactly “last mile”.
 

MarkyT

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The USA started with a much larger loading gauge, making double-stack easier to achieve in recent decades, especially in the open Midwest, where there are few major tunnels or even many overbridges. Older railroads in the east often didn't have such generous clearances, which even now limits the range of Amtrak's bi-level superliner cars, as well as double-stack freight service. Eastern railroads have since undertaken significant clearance works on selected routes for such freight trains, but superliners are still excluded from Amtrak's own Northeast Corridor (NEC). There are so many significant overbridges and tunnels on this route through some of the densest populations in the USA that the necessary works would be impracticable.

The cities of the eastern seaboard are useful in considering the difficulties such gauge enhancement would face in the UK. Most of the NEC is already grade-separated with few level crossings. That's similar to UK mainlines, which pass through many long-established large settlements. Rebuilding countless urban overbridges for a significant clearance enhancement would be extremely expensive disruptive and unpopular.

Another thought. Even if double-stack height were achievable on existing tracks by rebuilding structures, the side-to-side sway component of the 'dynamic envelope' of such tall vehicles would increase, requiring a greater minimum spacing between tracks, without the vehicles themselves being physically wider.
 
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