Post Covid should SWR be designing a new service pattern ?

[OneTrackMinded]

A lot of people still working from home, might take time for some routes to get back to normal.

mods note - split from this thread

I personally don't think they ever will

 

[JonathanH]

A lot of people still working from home, might take time for some routes to get back to normal.

'Back to normal' is meaningless. The routes are in a new stable normal with different usage patterns. That means a different service is appropriate.

The challenge is that there hasn't been a full recast, just tinkering and removing services from the old pattern, rather than a new timetable reflecting and optimising for the new demand and the level of service that matches the level of funding.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

'Back to normal' is meaningless. The routes are in a new stable normal with different usage patterns. That means a different service is appropriate.

The challenge is that there hasn't been a full recast, just tinkering and removing services from the old pattern, rather than a new timetable reflecting and optimising for the new demand and the level of service that matches the level of funding.

Agree rather than chase frequency lets produce a timetable that delivers even interval services along all routes

 

[JCO1406]

In my opinion, SWR should do a full recast once all the 701s are in service. So maybe in December 2025 or May/June 2026 would be the right time.

IF Crossrail 2 does go ahead, then they will be forced to do a timetable recast as they lose the Hampton Court and Chessington South branches.

 

[Peter Sarf]

It makes sense to let the post Covid19 demand settle down before big changes.

Temptation though is to do some tweaks to encourage usage or at least alleviate any discouraging service patterns.

SWR does seem to be the TOC worst affected by home working. Lets face it the majority of people who can work from home do prefer to avoid commuting. The genie is out of the bottle and most people know it can be made possible to work from home.

Crossrail2 might be less likely these days but might actually stimulate growth.

 

[devon_belle]

To reflect the boom in the leisure market (and the failure of on-peak passenger numbers to return), I would propose a Mon-Thur 'weekday' service with peak extras to entice commuters with easier journeys to London etc. Then have a Fri-Sun 'weekend' service focusing on leisure flows, such as to holiday destinations and more end-to-end trains.

Would certainly need DfT (and rail union) approval, but as more people take a 4 day work week it no longer makes sense to only have Saturday as a useful leisure service (Sundays typically having fewer trains). Getting people out of cars with better services, as well as reintroducing leisure amenities (catering trolleys, better luggage spaces) would be good, in my opinion.

 

[Helvellyn]

The pre-covid timetable was largely the same Mon-Sat, but with some significant tweaks/extras in the peaks Mon-Fri.

Leisure travel was strong on the Saturday timetable, and even off peak Mon-Fri on many flows. Aside from the stock withdrawals I've never understood why the Saturday timetable wasn't the starting point. Removing peak extras could have allowed some of what were the heavier loaded first off peak services to be strengthened.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Sunday - Hmmm.

Just a brainstorm but would it be good if Monday to Saturday were the same with peak extras on Tuesday to Friday. That would leave Sunday as quieter. This all assumes many leisure travellers would go away for a three day "weekend" leaving least demand on Sunday and also that the commuters could be persuaded to rest more on Monday than Friday. An un-small ask !.

I have wondered why Monday has picked up better than Friday for commuting. My only guess is that traditionally people always slopped off early on Friday anyway so Friday was always going to be the day people did not bother working on.

I still think the only normal/full commuting days are tending towards Tuesday to Thursday. Really a three day "in the office" week seems to have settled in. Be nice if instead 50% percent of commuters would do Monday to Wednesday and the other 50% Thursday to Saturday (in days of yore Saturday used to be a working day). Not likely.

I don't care about keeping Sunday special and many who work it just wish it was a normal length day or no work at all. But I think the unions do want to keep Sunday special !.

One advantage of the 3.5 day railway weekend is perhaps longer weekend engineering possessions would be less disruptive ?.

Just throwing a few thoughts in the ring to see what is feasible or daft

 

[Bletchleyite]

One advantage of the 3.5 day railway weekend is perhaps longer weekend engineering possessions would be less disruptive ?.

Quite the opposite. With leisure travel booming, you want them any time *other than* weekends.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Quite the opposite. With leisure travel booming, you want them any time *other than* weekends.

I worried that might be so. Was hoping leisure meant long weekends away but just as likely it is mainly just more one day trips ?.

Especially as hotels seem to be so much more expensive post Covid thus making day trips more attractive than two or three day trips. That might be what myself and friends are doing really. Although also because we don't want to get stranded if a strike day hits one day of our long weekend day or we have to cancel the expensive hotel.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I worried that might be so. Was hoping leisure meant long weekends away but just as likely it is many one day trips ?.

On a London commuter railway like SWR, day trips to London, primarily on Saturday but also on Sunday, will be the big market.

 

[Peter Sarf]

On a London commuter railway like SWR, day trips to London, primarily on Saturday but also on Sunday, will be the big market.

Oh yes, obvious when you look at this that way. So a hotel stay irrelevant.

Staying London centric that means the long weekend would be a different concept. Travel to a destination(s) a long way beyond London so London suburbia to York/PeakDistrict/Lakes/Scotland (obviously the further away the more likely several days are involved).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Staying London centric that means the long weekend would be a different concept. Travel to a destination(s) a long way beyond London so London suburbia to York/PeakDistrict/Lakes/Scotland (obviously the further away the more likely several days are involved).

Aside from Weymouth/Exeter that isn't really applicable to SWR, the subject of the thread, though. There will be people going for a weekend away, but it won't be anywhere near the majority.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

To reflect the boom in the leisure market (and the failure of on-peak passenger numbers to return), I would propose a Mon-Thur 'weekday' service with peak extras to entice commuters with easier journeys to London etc. Then have a Fri-Sun 'weekend' service focusing on leisure flows, such as to holiday destinations and more end-to-end trains.

This has been looked at, however having the same service Friday as Saturdays doesn’t really work as schools and colleges haven’t adopted the 4 day weekdays yet (and aren’t proposed to).

A lot of the peak variants on SWR, an example being Shepperton to Waterloo via Richmond also allow for student traffic.

Student traffic is often overlooked and can be a timetable planners nightmare.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This has been looked at, however having the same service Friday as Saturdays doesn’t really work as schools and colleges haven’t adopted the 4 day weekdays yet (and aren’t proposed to).

A lot of the peak variants on SWR, an example being Shepperton to Waterloo via Richmond also allow for student traffic.

Student traffic is often overlooked and can be a timetable planners nightmare.

Is not a sensible plan to have a base service that operates 7 days a week then overlay extensions and peak extras on top as required on specific days? That's what LNR and Avanti do, give or take the late Sunday start and some differences in the very late evening.