Possibly looking at a Merseyside jaunt - any advice

[crispy1978]

I'm pencilling in a trip over to Liverpool later this year to try and cover the MerseyRail map - been looking at a plan.

A couple of tight changes - but got some time in my plan if everything goes a bit pear-shaped to make time up.

What does anyone think of this?

Time From Time To Ticket Price
6:30 Scarborough 8:43 Manchester Piccadilly TP ADV Single £13.00
9:17 Manchester Piccadilly 10:45 Chester NT DAY Single £12.20
11:01 Chester 11:14 Hooton ME MR Rover £4.80
11:19 Hooton 11:30 Ellesmere Port ME MR Rover See above
12:12 Ellesmere Port 12:52 Liverpool Central ME MR Rover See above
12:59 Liverpool Central 13:17 Hunts Cross ME MR Rover See above
13:21 Hunts Cross 14:09 Freshfield ME MR Rover See above
14:11 Freshfield 14:36 Sandhills ME MR Rover See above
14:41 Sandhills 14:53 Kirkby ME MR Rover See above
15:13 Kirkby 15:22 Kirkdale ME MR Rover See above
15:36 Kirkdale 15:59 Ormskirk ME MR Rover See above
16:05 Ormskirk 16:35 Liverpool Central ME MR Rover See above
16:50 Liverpool Central 17:13 New Brighton ME MR Rover See above
17:23 New Brighton 17:33 Birkenhead North ME MR Rover See above
17:37 Birkenhead North 17:57 West Kirby ME MR Rover See above
18:06 West Kirby 18:38 Liverpool Lime Street ME MR Rover See above
19:22 Liverpool Lime Street 21:37 York TP ADV Single £16.00
22:12 York 23:01 Scarborough TP ADV Single See above

A little bit tight at Freshfield perhaps and possibly Birkenhead North - what do you guys think?

 

[FQ]

I like it. Apart from the early start and finish. My advice is probably get a hotel in the Chester area and spend the night on the day before you do the trip so you can get in more of the network and stuff. I am also planning one on the 07:47 from Penyffordd-Bidston and then the 18:46 Bidston-Penyffordd and it gets in all the line. Hoping to do that later this month.

 

[crispy1978]

I like it. Apart from the early start and finish. My advice is probably get a hotel in the Chester area and spend the night on the day before you do the trip so you can get in more of the network and stuff. I am also planning one on the 07:47 from Penyffordd-Bidston and then the 18:46 Bidston-Penyffordd and it gets in all the line. Hoping to do that later this month.

I'd get allowed out for one day, not convinced the wife would allow me to stay over to do something she thinks is pretty much a waste of time!!

 

[ATW Alex 101]

You should make Birkenhead North provided there are no major delays, just stand by the door and walk fast over to the other platform. I can't inform you about Freshfield as I have never been there despite being on my local train network.

 

[fowler9]

Freshfield be at the rear of the train where the footbridge is. Pleasant enough little station. Shouldn't be a problem unless there are delays. Central looks a little tight on your way from Ellesmere Port to Hunts Cross if there are any delays.

 

[crispy1978]

Cheers - this is the kind of advice I'm looking for to help me plan potential scheduling issues.

 

[Techniquest]

As fowler9 states, your connections at Central aren't entirely the best. It's surprising how long it takes to transfer from the Northern to Wirral lines. Although actually I think it's at Central where it's down the stairs/escalator and you're practically there. In reverse it's a lot longer, but the first one I'm looking at of 7 minutes should be fine.

Hunts Cross it's the same platform and train so you'll be fine. Freshfield, no. Do plan a different connection there as you're virtually guaranteed to miss that 2 minute connection.

Plenty of connection time at Lime Street on the way back I see, that's good news. Why's that you ask? I challenge you to walk the stairs from the Wirral line to surface level and not be worn out... Seriously, it takes a while even on the escalators, and transfer from the Wirral line platforms to mainline platforms easily takes a minimum of 7 minutes.

Birkenhead North, they were doing up the footbridge when I was last there so whether the one at the Liverpool end of the station is back in use now or not I'm not sure. I'm fairly sure the temporary footbridge is due to be in use for a good while yet though, as it takes a good while to install lifts (it sure has in Hereford, months later and we're still nowhere getting our footbridge back!

Sandhills is an island station so short connections there are easy. Kirkdale's a big footbridge but you've got plenty of time there. Maybe even time to take a few photos of the Merseyrail depot between trains.

Ormskirk's another one of those stations where it'll be the same platform and train back out. Almost certainly the case at West Kirby, but still double check just in case as that's a 2 platform station. New Brighton's also 2 platforms but outside the peak periods it's normally the same train in and out from the same platform. If not it's also an island station like West Kirby, so you should be fine.

In my experience, delays between 1 and 3 minutes are common across the Merseyrail network so I'd factor in a plan B just in case!

In terms of formations, it's going to be pretty much just single 507s and 508s across the board for your plan, not many 6 car trains anywhere on Merseyrail and most of those are on the Northern line to Southport.

Finally, for now at least, don't forget there's no facilities on 507s and 508s! Most stations have them though but you may need to factor in time for this in places. If you're sensible though the turnaround time at New Brighton and West Kirby will be fine for that.

 

[fowler9]

Yeah it is a bit of a mission from Lime Street high level to low level. I often wonder how many people needed to get to near Central and have humped their stuff down to the Wirral line when just walking to Central would have been quicker. If you go on National Rail Enquiries for trains from Lime Street to South Parkway it sometimes includes the Northern Line but rather than telling you to get the train to Central it tells you to walk.

 

[FQ]

Yeah it is a bit of a mission from Lime Street high level to low level. I often wonder how many people needed to get to near Central and have humped their stuff down to the Wirral line when just walking to Central would have been quicker. If you go on National Rail Enquiries for trains from Lime Street to South Parkway it sometimes includes the Northern Line but rather than telling you to get the train to Central it tells you to walk.

I know. Actually, it is much quicker to get from Liverpool Lime Street (high level) to Liverpool Central by walking than get from Liverpool Lime Street (high level) to Liverpool Lime Street (Low Level) by walking... What has the train network become?

 

[fowler9]

I know. Actually, it is much quicker to get from Liverpool Lime Street (high level) to Liverpool Central by walking than get from Liverpool Lime Street (high level) to Liverpool Lime Street (Low Level) by walking... What has the train network become?

Ha ha, it is a great little network though. I go in to Lime Street and pop to low level to get a train to James Street all the time to visit my mate who has a flat down there. I could easily walk that distance in a similar time but I'm bone idle and its fun.

 

[FQ]

Ha ha, it is a great little network though. I go in to Lime Street and pop to low level to get a train to James Street all the time to visit my mate who has a flat down there. I could easily walk that distance in a similar time but I'm bone idle and its fun.

It is a great network. How much is a ticket from Lime Street-James Street? It will probably be ching but I don't know.

 

[fowler9]

It is a great network. How much is a ticket from Lime Street-James Street? It will probably be ching but I don't know.

It is £1.70 but I travel in from West Allerton right by my house and the ticket is to Liverpool Stations and is valid to change trains to James Street. I have a Trio for zone C1 anyway so I am encouraged to be lazy. Ha ha. If I was in town anyway I would walk it.

 

[crispy1978]

Definitely need to revisit my plans then, didn't consider the lack of facilities.

 

[FQ]

It is £1.70 but I travel in from West Allerton right by my house and the ticket is to Liverpool Stations and is valid to change trains to James Street. I have a Trio for zone C1 anyway so I am encouraged to be lazy. Ha ha. If I was in town anyway I would walk it.

Ok then, thanks.

 

[fowler9]

Definitely need to revisit my plans then, didn't consider the lack of facilities.

The toilet facilities are a bit inconsistent. Free at Parkway, free at Central, free at Moorfields 30p at Lime Street, These are just the ones I know for sure. I know there are none at Cressington, Aigburth or Brunswick but you are not currently planning on getting off at any of those stations. None at Hunts Cross I think but there is a pub right next to the station which you could sneak in to, it literally is the old station building. Oh and Parkway has 3 toilets which are self cleaning so if you plan on using those you could be in with a wait at busy times.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Plenty of connection time at Lime Street on the way back I see, that's good news. Why's that you ask? I challenge you to walk the stairs from the Wirral line to surface level and not be worn out... Seriously, it takes a while even on the escalators, and transfer from the Wirral line platforms to mainline platforms easily takes a minimum of 7 minutes.

.

From the Wirral Line at Lime Street simply walk to the end of the platform in direction of travel and take the lift which brings you out in the mainline station - and you don't even need to show a ticket. Much handier if in a rush.

 

[fowler9]

From the Wirral Line at Lime Street simply walk to the end of the platform in direction of travel and take the lift which brings you out in the mainline station - and you don't even need to show a ticket. Much handier if in a rush.

Blimey, I didn't know that! Where does the lift come out? Don't worry, I'm not about to start bunking on. Ha ha.

 

[Techniquest]

I didn't know of that option, I will remember that in future!

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Blimey, I didn't know that! Where does the lift come out? Don't worry, I'm not about to start bunking on. Ha ha.

It brings you out between the toilets and the left luggage place on the main station concourse. Only found out about it myself because I had someone infirm with me who needed the lift.

 

[FQ]

None at Hunts Cross I think but there is a pub right next to the station which you could sneak in to, it literally is the old station building.

I think Hunts Cross does have toilets.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/HNX.aspx

 

[fowler9]

Lived here most of my life and never knew, ha ha.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/SME/html/NRE_LIV/plan.html

sorry got it mixed up - it actually comes out between Boots and W.H. Smith on the main concourse.

If you hover your mouse on the station plan (link above) between Boots and WH Smith it will show you the lift. Not too well signed otherwise

 

[fowler9]

I think Hunts Cross does have toilets.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/HNX.aspx

Fair play mate, wasn't sure. Mouth was open, should have been shut. Ha ha.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Hunts X does have toilets but whenever I'm there they are either being worked on or locked.

 

[fowler9]

Birkenhead North does have toilets also but the lock doesn't work so you have to ask at the ticket office, at least you did two weeks ago.

 

[crispy1978]

Good advice, gonna have a re-jig tomorrow lunchtime
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
OK - my rejigged plan is done.

I've changed the order I've done things to try and ease up a bit of time - I've got at least 5 minutes at each "interchange" - granted, there is less at some of the "termini", but I think I am generally on the same train out from what I can tell, so it shouldn't be a problem.

How does this look now?

Time From Time To
6:30 Scarborough 8:43 Manchester Piccadilly TP
9:17 Manchester Piccadilly 10:45 Chester NT
11:01 Chester 11:14 Hooton ME
11:19 Hooton 11:30 Ellesmere Port ME
11:42 Ellesmere Port 12:14 Hamilton Square ME
12:45 Hamilton Square 13:12 West Kirby ME
13:36 West Kirby 13:54 Birkenhead North ME
14:02 Birkenhead North 14:13 New Brighton ME
14:23 New Brighton 14:50 Liverpool Central ME
15:05 Liverpool Central 15:23 Kirkby ME
15:28 Kirkby 15:37 Kirkdale ME
15:51 Kirkdale 16:14 Ormskirk ME
16:20 Ormskirk 16:44 Sandhills ME
17:00 Sandhills 17:40 Southport ME
17:58 Southport 18:57 Liverpool South Parkway ME
19:32 Liverpool South Parkway 21:37 York TP
22:12 York 23:01 Scarborough TP

One final question - it is probably going to be October before I get round to doing this unless I can sneak it in during August (looking unlikely) - what is the footfall like with the football? As it stands, I think I am going through Kirkdale (nearest station) during when the 3pm kickoffs will be, so in theory I'd guess I'd imagine it being a bit quieter?

I'm missing out Hunts Cross - I have been there before, so not too worried about missing it.

Again, any contributions much appreciated.

 

[Green Lane]

Looks like a good plan to me.

The only extra thing I would suggest is some sort of "plan B" in case of any delays. i.e. cutting short or missing out part of the network in order that you can still get home that night.

Of course I sincerely hope that everything runs on time for you on the day itself and indeed I would be optimistic about that.

But as your itinerary includes a large number of trains, all it would take would be one track trespass incident or a broken down train and the schedule can be completely thrown off.

For this reason, I normally allow at least one hour "slippage time" or preferably two hours in case any unforseen incidents arise. I can see in the case of your trip though that there is apparently no slack time left for this. (Then again you do have over half an hour at Liverpool South Parkway on the way back so hopefully that will be sufficient.)

I only mention this because a few weeks back one of my trips was delayed when two separate Merseyrail services were cancelled on the same day (one on the Wirral Line and one on the Northern Line). A few weeks earlier another cancellation occured. So my advice would be just bear it in mind to have a contingency plan in case of disruptions which would allow you to sacrifice a small part of your trip, but still make the required train home - if it comes to that. Of course I hope in the event that it will not be needed.

It could be argued that you could do the whole plan more comfortably over the course of two separate daytrips. Would be bit less of a rush, but if it can be done in one day, then great!

As for toilets, I usually use the ones in Liverpool Central, Chester & Southport (No worries about them being occupied & no intercom needed).

I also often use the ones in St Johns shopping centre (across the street from Lime Street station) when transferring from Lime Street Low Level to main line services or vice-versa. Although this does take a few extra minutes, which you may not have.
I would not object in principle to paying the 30p at Lime Street itself, it's just that generally for anyone familiar with the area, there's just no need to.

Have a great trip, cheers!

 

[crispy1978]

Looks like a good plan to me.

The only extra thing I would suggest is some sort of "plan B" in case of any delays. i.e. cutting short or missing out part of the network in order that you can still get home that night.

Of course I sincerely hope that everything runs on time for you on the day itself and indeed I would be optimistic about that.

But as your itinerary includes a large number of trains, all it would take would be one track trespass incident or a broken down train and the schedule can be completely thrown off.

For this reason, I normally allow at least one hour "slippage time" or preferably two hours in case any unforseen incidents arise. I can see in the case of your trip though that there is apparently no slack time left for this. (Then again you do have over half an hour at Liverpool South Parkway on the way back so hopefully that will be sufficient.)

I only mention this because a few weeks back one of my trips was delayed when two separate Merseyrail services were cancelled on the same day (one on the Wirral Line and one on the Northern Line). A few weeks earlier another cancellation occured. So my advice would be just bear it in mind to have a contingency plan in case of disruptions which would allow you to sacrifice a small part of your trip, but still make the required train home - if it comes to that. Of course I hope in the event that it will not be needed.

It could be argued that you could do the whole plan more comfortably over the course of two separate daytrips. Would be bit less of a rush, but if it can be done in one day, then great!

As for toilets, I usually use the ones in Liverpool Central, Chester & Southport (No worries about them being occupied & no intercom needed).

I also often use the ones in St Johns shopping centre (across the street from Lime Street station) when transferring from Lime Street Low Level to main line services or vice-versa. Although this does take a few extra minutes, which you may not have.
I would not object in principle to paying the 30p at Lime Street itself, it's just that generally for anyone familiar with the area, there's just no need to.

Have a great trip, cheers!

Thanks for taking the time to reply

My plan B would probably be to simply miss out the Southport bit and make my way to Liverpool South Parkway (either on Merseyrail, or straight from Lime Street).

 

[Green Lane]

Thanks for taking the time to reply

My plan B would probably be to simply miss out the Southport bit and make my way to Liverpool South Parkway (either on Merseyrail, or straight from Lime Street).

Yes, sounds sensible. That would recover a lot of time. Also you could swap the order of doing some of the branches if there was a delay on one line, then do another on instead after which hopefully any delay might have cleared.

Of course most of the time the Merseyrail system does run pretty well, so hopefully your orignal plan will work out fine.

One other thing I often do is just pay 10p more for an all-zones Merseytravel Saveaway ticket (£4.90 as opposed to £4.80 for the Merseyrail day saver at the time of writing).

This has the advantage that within the Merseyside ceremonial county boundary, the ticket is also valid on buses and many railway stations in Merseyside (including Wirral) also have direct bus services to Liverpool City Centre.
Can be quite handy as a backup.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

If you are quick on your toes or just want to take in an extra station you could alight at Rice Lane (formerly Preston Road) on the 15:28 from Kirkby and nip round to Walton to pick up the Ormskirk train. the 15:28 is due at Rice Lane at 15:34. Rice Lane and Walton are very close to each other and it is just about possible to make Walton in 4 minutes in time to catch the 15:38 Ormskirk service gaining you 15 minutes - and if you don't make it you will still catch your intended 15:51 ex-Kirkdale which is due Walton at 15:53.

http://www.merseyrail.org/plan-your-journey/stations/rice-lane.aspx