Possible Valley Lines expansion

[CardiffKid]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...n-of-the-valleys-lines-trains-91466-31703254/

Could electrification herald an expansion of the Valleys Lines trains?

The electrification of Wales’ major commuter rail network could lead to a cut-price expansion of the network.

Experts believe that the long-wished-for expansion of the Valleys Lines commuter routes around South Wales could be made affordable by electrification.

Previous studies into planned extensions to places such as Hirwaun and into Ebbw Vale town centre were based on the existing diesel trains, adding significantly to the cost.

The UK Government announced in June that the network, including routes to Ebbw Vale and Maesteg, would be electrified under Network Rail’s funding settlement for 2014-19.

Transport expert Prof Stuart Cole, of the University of Glamorgan, said electrification was not on the agenda until 18 months ago, and warned that commitments to any Valley Lines extensions must be made soon if the cost is to be minimised.

“There’s no point coming up with schemes in 2014, because those [Network Rail funding] decisions are being made now,” he said.

“What they don’t want then is a situation where somebody like the Welsh Government comes along [in several years time] and says, ‘We want this extension to Hirwaun.’ That’s really got to be decided in the next year, or less.”

He said it was worth making a preliminary study of the potential extensions with electric trains assumed, to see quickly which ones might be justified. Ideally the track would be in place before the electrification equipment came to the Valleys.

Passenger campaign group Railfuture said electrification could bolster extension proposals by cutting costs and increasing the numbers of people likely to use the trains..... (more...)

Discuss

 

[emoaconr]

The opening sentence immediately devalues the entire article from my viewpoint.

The electrification of Wales’ major commuter rail network could lead to a cut-price expansion of the network.

Cardiff ≠ Wales.

 

[joeykins82]

Well, the most comprehensive commuter rail network in Wales is the one centred in Cardiff so on that basis the language is correct.

 

[Gareth Marston]

OK aside the S Wales centric concerns the article raises some valid points.

The WG published a National Transport Infrastructure Plan this March covering the period up to 2019, there was no mention of any rail infrastructure projects beyond the already committed Cardiff Area Resignalling Money, Loughor and Wrexham-Saltney re doubling projects.

There's a whole slew of potential schemes that have gone off the radar Hirwuan extension from Aberdare, trains from Ebbw Vale to Newport which requires more double track in Ebbw Valley, Abertillery extension, passing loop at Tondu to allow Maeteg branch to go 2tph..

All of which make sense to do at the same time as the lines are electrified as it will reduce costs and the electrification plant is on site anyway. These need to be factored in now not in the 2020's.

 

[tbtc]

Well, the most comprehensive commuter rail network in Wales is the one centred in Cardiff so on that basis the language is correct.

Exactly - how many other "commuter rail networks" are there in Wales?

 

[emoaconr]

Exactly - how many other "commuter rail networks" are there in Wales?

I did move to Cardiff back in 2008; I was not being wholly serious there! However I'd still prefer if that sentence just didn't exist... [Technically, you could argue that the Borderlands Line in North Wales is part of a commuter network... a network of a city in England, but nevertheless] :P

I think personally the Hirwaun extension is the most likely extention to be considered first and foremost, however I think joining the Ebbw Vale to Newport should be more of a priority first.

Would there be any concievable market along the Cwmbargoed route towards east Merthyr?

There could do with being a station or two more in central Cardiff... perhaps a Roath and/or Cathays West station on the Rhymney/Coryton line, and I also think there could be a very big market for a Maindy station, which would be situated very closely to the huge Talybont student residence.

 

[Solaris]

Some post VLE suggestions..... http://www.mgbarryconsulting.com/docs/10042012103742.pdf

 

[rf_ioliver]

Would there be any concievable market along the Cwmbargoed route towards east Merthyr?

Cwmbargoed has been rumoured for a while - I think it is in the plans certainly. Llantrisant-Beddau and St Fagans-Creigau are also possibilities too.

Actually just running a train over those routes would pay for itself in terms of property price increases - except the economic model doesn't take this into consideration well....

What about the routes out of Bridgend via Tondu?

t.

Ian

 

[tbtc]

I did move to Cardiff back in 2008; I was not being wholly serious there! However I'd still prefer if that sentence just didn't exist... [Technically, you could argue that the Borderlands Line in North Wales is part of a commuter network... a network of a city in England, but nevertheless] :P

I'm just picking up on it because there's always complaints about "Cardiff bias" which ignores the fact that most of the infrastructure improvements in recent years have been far away from Cardiff (the Cambrian has cost a fortune, the money found for redoubling of the Wrexham - Chester line and the single track at Gowerton)... the rest of Wales has had a pretty good slice of the cake in recent years, comparatively.

 

[emoaconr]

I'm just picking up on it because there's always complaints about "Cardiff bias" which ignores the fact that most of the infrastructure improvements in recent years have been far away from Cardiff (the Cambrian has cost a fortune, the money found for redoubling of the Wrexham - Chester line and the single track at Gowerton)... the rest of Wales has had a pretty good slice of the cake in recent years, comparatively.

Oh by god no, I'm not anti-Cardiff at all :P I'm a northerner who now has a home in both the north and the south! I've already made my neutral viewpoint clear on many occasions ahah! I just want services to be realistic, worthwhile and important to the local area, no matter where it is.

Anyway, back onto this. The Cwmbargoed route is a very intruiguing one indeed, though I'd say the reason why its never been redeveloped is more due to its duplication by in part stations on the other lines. Nevertheless, stations at Nelson & Llancaiach, Trelewis and Bedlinog would be beneficial. An eventual link-up of the line from Cwmbargoed Washery onto East Merthyr would be a nice idea, but probably pie-in-the-sky.

 

[D107]

Cwmbargoed has been rumoured for a while - I think it is in the plans certainly. Llantrisant-Beddau and St Fagans-Creigau are also possibilities too.

Actually just running a train over those routes would pay for itself in terms of property price increases - except the economic model doesn't take this into consideration well....

What about the routes out of Bridgend via Tondu?

t.

Ian

Llantrisant -Beddau would be a good option and the trackbed still exists (albeit overgrown). Not sure about St Fagans to Creigiau as the A4232 uses some of the old trackbed and the M4 bisects it at Jct 33.

A station at Ely/Fairwater (West Cardiff) would be interesting but seeing as the proposed station at Brackla (Bridgend -and ripe for servicing a huge estate) is still on the drawing board, I wouldn't hold my breath.

As for Tondu, the trackbed to Ogmore Vale is now a cycle path but the Garw Valley Railway project seeks to re-open the line from Pontycymmer down to Tondu at some point in the future. A passing loop on the Maesteg branch would be most beneficial.

The Ogmore Vale Extension (the OVE) runs to Parc Slip and Margam via Pyle but the main centre of population (Pyle) already has its own station on the SWML.

 

[anthony263]

The Ogmore Vale Extension (the OVE) runs to Parc Slip and Margam via Pyle but the main centre of population (Pyle) already has its own station on the SWML.

I have heard that the loop at Tondu was going to be installed as the WG want to extend the Ebbw Vale - Cardiff services to Maesteg once infrastructure and rolling stock allow it to do so.

An additional service to Maesteg per hour would be useful especially during the peaks as the 16:18 and 17:20 departures from Cardiff are extremely overcrowded even if they are worked by a 3 carriage class 175.

I do agree about the Beddau - Pontyclun branch being re-opened though witha s huttle between Pontyclun and Beddau perhaps using some long parry people movers.

Brackla station certainly needs to be built ideally on the loop to allow trains to be overtaken there.

As for other welsh infrastructure projects how about a regular service along and a new station near Morriston on the Swansea district line wihich would serve the Swansea valley and the major destinations in Morriston such as the DVLA and liberty stadium.

The Ogmore extension (OVE) line in my opinion is too twisty and slow to be use by a regular passenger service but wanst there a suggestion of a Maesteg - Swansea service at one time which would use it.

Still I think we are in for an interesting time over the next few years as we see the wires erected and what units will be brought in to replace the class 150's and pacer units.

 

[Gareth Marston]

As I said earlier the WG have no plans for any rail Infrastructure spend in the period up to 2019 in SE Wales beyond the Cardiff Area Re signalling, by which time the electrification teams and plant will be long gone.

Cwmbargoed/ East Merthyr in reality Dowlais Cae Harris. I walked the old station there a couple of months back - the site could have tracks and station on it no problem. The A road from Dowlais top to Pentrebach would need to be crossed otherwise no physical obstacles though I understand the gradients were 1:35 on that line!

 

[emoaconr]

With the electrification of the entire network, is there any hope of actually using the "Valley Lines" brand?

I know when Valley Lines was its own TOC, it was slightly uneconomical, but it was continued under Wales & Borders for 3 years as just a brand. Everyone refers to them as the "Valley Lines" (never the "Cardiff & Valleys Local Routes" as ATW likes to call them).

I know Merseyrail is an independent TOC, but the local branding I think is very successful and highlights the fact it is a metro-style network.

 

[anthony263]

I most certainly agree about the valley lines network & units getting their own brand a bit like the crosscity line in Birmingham.

In fact can we please have the class 323's on the valley lines and give new emu's to London Midland/Northern?

(I msut admit I have become more of a fan of the class 323's since I spent most of Monday riding on them)

 

[Gwenllian2001]

I have heard that the loop at Tondu was going to be installed as the WG want to extend the Ebbw Vale - Cardiff services to Maesteg once infrastructure and rolling stock allow it to do so.

An additional service to Maesteg per hour would be useful especially during the peaks as the 16:18 and 17:20 departures from Cardiff are extremely overcrowded even if they are worked by a 3 carriage class 175.

Brackla station certainly needs to be built ideally on the loop to allow trains to be overtaken there.

As for other welsh infrastructure projects how about a regular service along and a new station near Morriston on the Swansea district line wihich would serve the Swansea valley and the major destinations in Morriston such as the DVLA and liberty stadium.

The Ogmore extension (OVE) line in my opinion is too twisty and slow to be use by a regular passenger service but wanst there a suggestion of a Maesteg - Swansea service at one time which would use it.

There is already a loop at Tondu that has been used to pass trains ocassionally but it is in the wrong place for interval working. My understanding is that that the new loop would be at the site of the Llynfi Power Station sidings.

The opening of Llanharan station has effectively knocked Bracla on the head, for the time being, however that might no longer be the case after electrification because the superior acceleration could make it a practical proposition.

The Swansea District Line has distinct possibilities although it is not likely to be wired.

If there was a suggestion of Maesteg - Swansea via the OVE, I didn't hear it and I live in Maesteg. It would, of course, be possible but whether there is sufficient demand is open to question.

The Cwmbargoed line should be seriously considered, perhaps running fast from Ystrad Mynach and calling at the new Energlyn station and Caerffili only.

 

[anthony263]

There is already a loop at Tondu that has been used to pass trains ocassionally but it is in the wrong place for interval working. My understanding is that that the new loop would be at the site of the Llynfi Power Station sidings.

The opening of Llanharan station has effectively knocked Bracla on the head, for the time being, however that might no longer be the case after electrification because the superior acceleration could make it a practical proposition.

The Swansea District Line has distinct possibilities although it is not likely to be wired.

If there was a suggestion of Maesteg - Swansea via the OVE, I didn't hear it and I live in Maesteg. It would, of course, be possible but whether there is sufficient demand is open to question.

The Cwmbargoed line should be seriously considered, perhaps running fast from Ystrad Mynach and calling at the new Energlyn station and Caerffili only.

Yes I certainly think at least an hourly service should operate over the Cwmbargoed line perhaps extending some of the proposed additional services which would terminate at Caerphilly.

As for a Maesteg - Swansea service I agree about whether there would be much demand especially if you consider journeys time would be over 1 hour and bus service X3 from Maesteg takes 56 minutes to get to Swansea and the quadrant bus station in Swansea is better positioned compared to high street station.

I would like to see an hourly Maesteg - Bridgend - Cardiff - Ebbw Vale service at some point in the future and hopefully once some class 150's become available perhaps we can get a full hourly service between Cardiff & Cheltenham Spa with the trains extended to west wales

 

[Greenback]

My priorities would be:

1. Additional trains to Maesteg
2. Newport - Ebbw Vale
3. Reopening Llantrisant - Beddau
4. Reopening Ystrad Mynach - Nelson, Trelewis & Bedlinog

I think that would be enough for now!

 

[OxtedL]

What are the prospects like for future routes into Newport, since we're on a vaguely related subject?

 

[anthony263]

With electrification I would like to think the prospect of a Ebbw Vale - Newport service are good all that needs to be done is to extended the double track section of the Ebbw Vale branch and get additional rolling stock which will come hopefully following electrification.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

What are the prospects like for future routes into Newport, since we're on a vaguely related subject?

Ebbw Vale, of course and Caerffili - Newport could be done, if there was a will but there's not much else left to play with.

 

[emoaconr]

With electrification I would like to think the prospect of a Ebbw Vale - Newport service are good all that needs to be done is to extended the double track section of the Ebbw Vale branch and get additional rolling stock which will come hopefully following electrification.

Would it be worth transferring all Ebbw Vale services to Newport, then reversing back to Cardiff (and eventually Maesteg)?

But this would then put the Westbound curve out of use I suppose.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

One of the unique selling points of the present Ebbw Vale service is the fast access to Cardiff (hence the success of the service) - a Newport service would be complimentary to this.

 

[emoaconr]

One of the unique selling points of the present Ebbw Vale service is the fast access to Cardiff (hence the success of the service) - a Newport service would be complimentary to this.

I do realise this, and it is very much in demand. But I can't help feeling its not a natural connection.

How much longer would a reversal at Newport take?
I guess it could also meant that the Rogerstone-Newport High St bus service could also end, if that happened.

As long as the Newport demand was satisfied, a mixture of Cardiff-only and Cardiff-via-Newport services could be fine.

 

[anthony263]

A reversal would add 15 minutes to the by the time the trains has pulled into Newport station and the crew have changed ends and the unit gets away again most likely also getting held before crossing over Gaer Jct

 

[Greenback]

I have always been under the impression that the Newport service would just run to and from Newport in addition to the current Cardiff - Ebbw Vale trains.

I assume that some travellers from the Ebbw valley will want to go to Newport, Bristol and even stations to London, not just Cardiff!

 

[emoaconr]

A reversal would add 15 minutes to the by the time the trains has pulled into Newport station and the crew have changed ends and the unit gets away again most likely also getting held before crossing over Gaer Jct

The only thing I can base it on is up here are the Birmingham/Cardiff services to Holyhead between Wrexham and Chester and Shotton.

Northbound trains from Wrexham General join the North Wales Coast Line through to Chester at Saltney Jn, and once at Chester, do a reversal and then back a couple of miles along the line past Saltney Jn again towards Shotton. The times I have been on this, it has hasn't been a terribly long affair.

However I do realise that Newport handles far more traffic than Chester! :P

 

[Gareth Marston]

With electrification I would like to think the prospect of a Ebbw Vale - Newport service are good all that needs to be done is to extended the double track section of the Ebbw Vale branch and get additional rolling stock which will come hopefully following electrification.

You'll have to get the Welsh Government to change its transport infrastructure investment priorities if you want this done at the same time as electrification.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What are the prospects like for future routes into Newport, since we're on a vaguely related subject?

Abertillery is certainly possible the trackbed beyond there up to Brynmawr was turned into a road - A467 murderous gradient drove up it a few weeks back.
Extending to Ebbw Vale Town.
Real loss is the ex LNWR line up the Sirhowy Valley. Probably most depressed valley of them all? Large communities in Pontllanfraith/Blackwood/Tredegar.
Also Abersychan to Newport. Runs through Pontypool/Sebastopol/Griffithsstown/Cwmbran though Gwent CC had the road construction bulldozers in straight away after last freight in early 80's.