Possibility of untangling the LU subsurface lines?

[Bletchleyite]

I know. And one day it will be full, and more capacity needed.

Will it, though? The full-service capacity will be massive.

To be honest, if that did happen, I'd be looking to build some street tramways.

 

[Basil Jet]

there was a pre-war proposal to build tunnels to Edgware Road though, which became the Bakerloo line to Stanmore instead

Did you mean Finchley Road?

 

[cle]

The Met platforms at Baker Street are so curved, it's painfully slow. I would think sending as many Mets through as possible would be more efficient - especially now that those wide-ass A trains have gone and two S-s can pass one another on the curve!

For addl frequency, if the Paddington third platform never happenbs (doubtful, not a critical problem) - then short turns at Edgware Road (1-2tph) might be the easiest way to add frequency if it hamstrung by more through Mets. And in turn, turn some more Wimbledons at High St Ken now Olympia is basically dead. But nothing here seems especially pressing to address.

 

[mr_jrt]

Did you mean Finchley Road?

No, Edgware Road. I think, one of the reasons it was rebuilt with as many platforms as it has now. Got as far as the route indicators having Aylesbury added, apparently.

 

[stuu]

The Met platforms at Baker Street are so curved, it's painfully slow. I would think sending as many Mets through as possible would be more efficient - especially now that those wide-ass A trains have gone and two S-s can pass one another on the curve!

They always did, they were timetabled to cross the junction simultaneously

 

[Irascible]

I agree with this. Having lived most of my life outside London, but worked there for most of my career, I'd say it was a misconception that I arrived with but quickly discarded.

If I was a Londoner, I'd just junk the Circle Line entirely. I know that I quickly devised workarounds so that I didn't have to use it and I expect that a lot of Londoners do the same. I see the Circle Line as a sort of quarantine for country people travelling between the London Main Line stations, passing through without having to know anything about what's in between.

In all the years I lived there I can count the number of times I got on either the Circle or H&C ( or the central bits of the Met/District ) on one hand. Once you're down in the tubes it's easier to stay there until it's time to get out properly, and then it's less annoyance to walk...

I’ve seen all the discussion here but I’m not quite sure what problem is actually trying to be solved here?

All I can make out is the map is somehow offensive.

 

[mangyiscute]

How much demand does the Hammersmith branch actually get? I often get them from Paddington to Kings Cross and it never seems too busy - if the main aim is to simplify the map then making the circle back into an actual circle would surely be fine. For me, the main issue is just that these lines run so slowly (you always sit at Edgware Road for at least a minute), and with the lesser frequency than deep level it often just doesnt make sense to take. For example, despite it being a longer route, paddington to seven sisters is calculated to be faster changing at Oxford Circus than changing at Kings Cross

 

[cle]

They always did, they were timetabled to cross the junction simultaneously

Not the case. If a Met was coming from the Baker St platforms headed into the core, a westbound service toward the Edgware Road-bound platforms would be held. And vice versa - on the curve, the A stock was too wide.

 

[Irascible]

For example, despite it being a longer route, paddington to seven sisters is calculated to be faster changing at Oxford Circus than changing at Kings Cross

Exactrly! I always used the Bakerloo as the final step for that route ( I lived around the Archway/Hornsey for years so the final bit tended to change ) - I think very occasionally on a weekend when the Moorgate trains went to KX we'd go down there. More likely Finsbury Park & the Vic.

 

[cle]

How much demand does the Hammersmith branch actually get? I often get them from Paddington to Kings Cross and it never seems too busy - if the main aim is to simplify the map then making the circle back into an actual circle would surely be fine. For me, the main issue is just that these lines run so slowly (you always sit at Edgware Road for at least a minute), and with the lesser frequency than deep level it often just doesnt make sense to take. For example, despite it being a longer route, paddington to seven sisters is calculated to be faster changing at Oxford Circus than changing at Kings Cross

It's busy across West London, many local journeys, and counter-commuting to Hammersmith - plus more usage since Wood Lane opened. And again, with the many developments there, TV Centre/Soho House and the buildings behind White City tube, the second JL side of Westfield, Imperial etc etc etc - it's busier than ever. Plus those platforms have the best tube access to Paddington Basin.

However, I think a lot of folk will now jump onto Crossrail at Paddington - vs staying on until Farringdon or Liverpool St (with Barbican and Moorgate as bonuses!) - as it's painfully slow through there.

 

[Basil Jet]

All I can make out is the map is somehow offensive.

No, that's not it. I'm sure that if there were 4 tracks from Baker Street to Aldgate and from Tower Hill to Gloucester Road so that the Circle (and Hammersmith) could both run every four minutes each without getting in the way of everything else, people here would be happy with the service and the current map. (I do not advocate that.)

For me, the problem (Pre Liz) was that if you were at Whitechapel and you wanted the H&C, there might be one missing and a big gap. You'd be tempted to go to Tower Hill and get a Circle, but you'd know that there might be a gap in the Circle as well, meaning you would then want to come back to Aldgate East and finally get the H&C. Or you could walk from Aldgate East to Aldgate and get the Met, unless it was raining. You have a similar situation south of High Street Ken where neither line is really tube frequency, meaning that you can go southward from HSK or Liverpool Street fairly easily but it's difficult to come back northward to HSK or Liverpool Street. I realise that people in Skelmersdale are thinking "First World Problems", but it is natural that Londoners would view the Circle et al as a problem that needs to be fixed.

 

[bluegoblin7]

Not the case. If a Met was coming from the Baker St platforms headed into the core, a westbound service toward the Edgware Road-bound platforms would be held. And vice versa - on the curve, the A stock was too wide.

Do you have a Working Timetable source for this? It's the first I've ever heard of it.

Whilst the A stock were wider than usual, the only significant restrictions on their usual patch were on the St. Mary's Curve from the H&C to the East London Line, where only one train could traverse the curve at a time.