I know it’s a bank holiday but it’s still supposed to be a normal Monday timetable. Not a single 769is rostered to be out today and almost all the trains on Stalybridge and Oxford Road diagrams are short formed. Got to feel sorry for those fancying a day out at Southport!
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Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern
- Thread starter northwichcat
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Bit confused on the context of links? Could you elaborate what links mean? Staff or a new rail link?
Same again today, which is a normal working day. Not a single 769 rostered and 90% of Southport to Stalybridge/Oxford Road services are only 2 car.
What has happened? Has there been a staff mutiny or ave they given up on the 769s? It's a pretty poor service for anyone commuting on the line today.
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
And all Headbolt Lane services are 2 car today. At least most Wigan-Leeds are 3/4 carriages.
FrontSideBus
On Moderation
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Well every time I've used a service from Headbolt lane, they have locked two coaches out of use anyway!
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
After Wigan those extra 2 carriages are needed.
They travel to Headbolt lane because it'd be more difficult to take them off.
Locked out because of 'allegedly' short platforms -Orrell being one. The platforms are still there and are long enough at all the stations but have not been 'maintained'...........read into that what you will.
Didn't make much sense yesterday when all (bar one turn) Southports were short-formed 2 cars, with several locked-out 4's on the Headbolt Lane services. MDTR.
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diligentdave
Member
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424 & 442 are both available at Allerton. Of the others, 421 being used for driver training (minus a few bits), 448 has an engine issue, 452 is undergoing Northern conversion tasks, 456 still at Brodies. 458 has a defective traction motor/wheelset.
50002Superb
Established Member
Is 452 still at Crewe Electric please @diligentdave ?
Calderdale Ian
Member
769450 has come to grief at Bolton on 1503 Southport to Manchester Oxford Road ....Looks like another 769 is required to rescue it from Northern's journey planner :
"Services to/from/through Bolton are currently being disrupted due to a broken down train.
Our maintenance teams are currently working to source a rescue train to move the train with a fault."
"Services to/from/through Bolton are currently being disrupted due to a broken down train.
Our maintenance teams are currently working to source a rescue train to move the train with a fault."
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As a 769 can only rescue another 769, 769431 purloined off the following Southport-Ox Road, then formed a 5W70 Bolton-Springs Branch (presumably towing 769450) so 769434 still in service but on its own, thought that was not allowed??
Just the 2 (supposed to be hourly) Mn Ox Rd-Southport then cancelled, with the following 3 all short formed. Another good day!
FrontSideBus
On Moderation
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Are there enough running to double form them so that when one breaks down the other is right there to recover it? 
Would be a bit long though!
Would be a bit long though!
Wyrleybart
Established Member
Links are used to roster crew. I was told many many years ago that the optimum link size was 24 lines but they vary from depot to depot and company to company.
So basically a 24 line link will have 24 lines deep and 7 days column across.
Each line should be occupied by a name and there should be 24 names in the left hand column and they should start with the Sunday column anjd read across to Saturday. At the end of the week "Joe Bloggs" on line 1 drops down to line 2, and all others similarly, with the person on line 24 bouncing up to line 1 etc etc.
Within the link should be all diagrammed turns at the depot as well as rest days, training days etc as well as spare turns to cover for leave, sickness etc. The link should be structured with a mix of duty times and turn lengths and rest days so that crew get a balanced work / life balance. So as an example "Joe Bloggs" has annual leave booked for Friday and Saturday on line 1 of the base roster, so the rosters will produce a weekly roster every week, and a daily roster for each day. The weekly and daily rosters will have Joe shoen as AL or ALR and will need to find someone else to cover Joe's linked turns on those days. The theoretical cover is using a spare turn driver nearest to the duty, but there are depot agreements to govern how the rostering is achieved.
Depending on (traincrew) depot size there maybe just one or two links or there may be a dozen. For example some drivers might be on a "four day week" with double rest days and a long weekend every three weeks, whereas others might be on a "five day week" with a week of rest days every so many weeks. Then there are part time or jobshare drivers who have their own links, so "Joe Bloggs" brother George might jobshare and have thee weeks off then work a week etc.
Hope this explains some of the link concept
Many thanks Wyrleybart - I've not come across this info before
434, 448. 424, 450, 442 all appear to be out today.
There is also one Southport to Oxford Road roster 0272 where the unit type or number is not specified. This left Southport 13 mins late and had lost a further 8 minutes by Wallgate with no further reports after.
There is also one Southport to Oxford Road roster 0272 where the unit type or number is not specified. This left Southport 13 mins late and had lost a further 8 minutes by Wallgate with no further reports after.
2O72 (not 0272) was 769448 which has now 'retired hurt' to SP having had difficulties as above, worked service to Man Ox Road and return service to Southport as far as Wigan Wallgate then cancelled forward. 769448 only returned to service today having spent some days in Wigan Wallgate sidings with 'engine' problems. Must have got back (or have been taken back) to AN at some point as it worked 5J01 Allerton-LLSt-Mn Vic this morning before 2W01 06.08 Man Vic-Southport thence 2O72.
No problem, ta for the original information. Note that there is a 16.15 5Z85 SP-AN later today. Could take a guess at 769448 but are there any more there other than 421? 769431 as a rescue unit took 769450 there earlier in the week and hasn't re-appeared since. Regretfully not got time to go and have a look.
Just passed springs branch, only 769 inside is 421 with a drivers bag inside the cab
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769431 + 448 on 5Z85
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450 cancelled at southport, seems to be goint back springs
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TFW unit at allerton depot powered on, whether its 452 or 421 i dont know but it is fully powered on
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769431 + 448 on 5Z85
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450 cancelled at southport, seems to be goint back springs
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TFW unit at allerton depot powered on, whether its 452 or 421 i dont know but it is fully powered on
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pokemonsuper9
Established Member
It looks like there was a move from Springs Branch to Allerton today, so it certainly could have been 769421 at Allerton depending what was on that service.
Realtime Trains | 5Z85 1615 Springs Branch Stabl Sdg to Allerton Depot | 29/08/2025
Real-time train running information for 5Z85 1615 departure from Springs Branch Stabl Sdg to Allerton Depot on 29/08/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Saw 5Z85 at wigan it was 769431 and 448 together, not sure what the tfw hnit is doing there (hopefully actually getting fixed)It looks like there was a move from Springs Branch to Allerton today, so it certainly could have been 769421 at Allerton depending what was on that service.
5Z85 1615 Springs Branch Stabl Sdg to Allerton DepotRealtime Trains | 5Z85 1615 Springs Branch Stabl Sdg to Allerton Depot | 29/08/2025
Real-time train running information for 5Z85 1615 departure from Springs Branch Stabl Sdg to Allerton Depot on 29/08/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
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769452 Now Confirmed At Being At Allerton. When it ran from crewe i have no clue
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pokemonsuper9
Established Member
769434 has just kicked everyone off, apparently rear engine won't start, been playing up all day according to staff.
The general opinion of the staff is that "they need to be burnt".
About 100 people stood on the platform here, and likely many more stuck on trains stuck behind
Edit: 17:22 - it has just left Wigan, likely for the sidings, all the Southport passengers now have a 2 car 156
The general opinion of the staff is that "they need to be burnt".
About 100 people stood on the platform here, and likely many more stuck on trains stuck behind
Edit: 17:22 - it has just left Wigan, likely for the sidings, all the Southport passengers now have a 2 car 156
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Leyland Bus
Established Member
To add to the '769 Watch' 431 has just left Bolton on the 1725 to Stalybridge only 4 minutes down, not bad...
A recent repaint, it stands out alittle for having "N O R T H E R N" names down the sides rather than the usual "NORTHERN"...
A recent repaint, it stands out alittle for having "N O R T H E R N" names down the sides rather than the usual "NORTHERN"...
It’s 156408 according to RTT
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
2W46 (08:31 off Southport) doesn't show an allocation on RTT, 156408 is showing as on 2W50 (10:30 off Southport)
769452 eyeballed at Ince on 2W11 10.52 Stalybridge-Southport, changing over from electric to diesel. Tables removed inside. First day in traffic having come off Allerton this morning on 5J02 Allerton-Lime Street-Man Vic. Unit not showing on RTT. 5 units in traffic today. Can also confirm that 769421 is still sat in its usual position at Springs Branch
Halwynd
Member
Still a runner - seen arriving at Wigan from Southport about 5pm.