Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern

[D9006]

There's DMUs standing in for regular electric units too so it seems there is a backlog at Allerton. The change over from 319s to just 323s and 331s could be having an impact perhaps.

Explains why I noticed Tuesday a 150 on the wigan North Western to Oxford Road peak service. Fully under the wires

 

[AM9]

Wonder how they'll perform going up miles platting towards stalybridge when the overheads have been tested next week.

Well, as 319s they would have driven up the gradients at each end of the Thamelink core, - 1:27 from standing starts so Miles platting at 1:5, so the extra 15 tonnes of two gensets and fuel would be the equivalent of about 150 passengers, which the 319s often carried over their 300+ seated load. Speed wouldn't be stunning, but their electronic traction will clearly exceed the performance of a 150 thrashing away.

 

[childwallblues]

Explains why I noticed Tuesday a 150 on the wigan North Western to Oxford Road peak service. Fully under the wires

And 150130 on the service this morning. Also 150144 on Wigan NW-Liverpool. Just like the old days before the 319s arrived!

 

[Bikeman78]

And 150130 on the service this morning. Also 150144 on Wigan NW-Liverpool. Just like the old days before the 319s arrived!

So they've scrapped electric trains and replaced them with similar diesel trains that are half the length? Oh dear.

 

[Greybeard33]

So they've scrapped electric trains and replaced them with similar diesel trains that are half the length? Oh dear.

Those services are booked to be worked by 331s. But the 331 fleet is now very intensively diagrammed, to cover for the withdrawal of the 319s.

 

[bengley]

So they've scrapped electric trains and replaced them with similar diesel trains that are half the length? Oh dear.

Yes. Shoddy isn't it?

 

[Geeves]

Quick overview of the 769s today

4 out 431, 442, 448, 458
3 on the depot 424, 434, 456
1 spare at Springs Branch 450

 

[david l]

So they've scrapped electric trains and replaced them with similar diesel trains that are half the length? Oh dear.

But who are 'they've?'
Would suggest that its not the TOC who sent units away for scrap before the replacement units a) arrived b) crews at Wigan and Blackpool were not trained on them. Throw in the very fragile staff relationship at the moment which the TOC's aren't allowed to sort and I know where I'm pointing the finger!

 

[Geeves]

By rights all the 323s should be here, traincrews trained with none of the current issues, the 319 departure date was likely agreed on long ago that's for another thread

 

[The exile]

By rights all the 323s should be here, traincrews trained with none of the current issues, the 319 departure date was likely agreed on long ago that's for another thread

Nothing should be taken off lease (whatever agreements have previously existed) until its replacement is up and running 100% (well, 90% or whatever booked availability is!)

 

[david l]

Nothing should be taken off lease (whatever agreements have previously existed) until its replacement is up and running 100% (well, 90% or whatever booked availability is!)

Agree, but its not down to the minions running the trains, its the organ grinders running the organisation (ie: HMGov/DfT etc) who don't see this/can't be bothered etc.

 

[Jamesrob637]

But a few extra/cascaded 323s are here now, better than none but obviously worse than a full fleet.

 

[jonesy3001]

But a few extra/cascaded 323s are here now, better than none but obviously worse than a full fleet.

208 and 212 are being used for static and driver training for the blackpool and wigan crews don't know how long that'll take like and how long the rest of the wmt batch join northern but that's for another thread.

 

[markglos]

Do the 769`s run on a Saturday, I would like to see 431 which ends up tonight at Newton Heath

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Do the 769`s run on a Saturday, I would like to see 431 which ends up tonight at Newton Heath

Unfortunately, the lines via Salford Crescent are closed at the weekends for a bit, and I think only 15x run when they're diverting via Chat Moss.
If not for the works I believe they would.

 

[The exile]

Agree, but its not down to the minions running the trains, its the organ grinders running the organisation (ie: HMGov/DfT etc) who don't see this/can't be bothered etc.

True

 

[markglos]

Unfortunately, the lines via Salford Crescent are closed at the weekends for a bit, and I think only 15x run when they're diverting via Chat Moss.
If not for the works I believe they would.

Thanks for that, i wont go out now

 

[Bertie the bus]

.

 

[Greybeard33]

I have noticed that today, during the Westhoughton line blockade, 769434 has been working some of the peak Wigan North Western - Victoria via Golborne services that are booked to a 331. Meanwhile 456 and 458 have been shuttling between Bolton and Oxford Road, also entirely under the wires.

Now that all the 319s are out of service and the 331 fleet is stretched I suppose it makes sense to use the 769s as EMUs on occasions like this.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I have noticed that today, during the Westhoughton line blockade, 769434 has been working some of the peak Wigan North Western - Victoria via Golborne services that are booked to a 331. Meanwhile 456 and 458 have been shuttling between Bolton and Oxford Road, also entirely under the wires.

Now that all the 319s are out of service and the 331 fleet is stretched I suppose it makes sense to use the 769s as EMUs on occasions like this.

Makes me wonder why when Southport - Oxford Road via Chat Moss is running no 769s are used, they can clearly go via Chat Moss.

 

[jonesy3001]

How come the 769s are not doing the full route from bolton to stalybridge on electric, if the stalybridge line is now live?

 

[Greybeard33]

Makes me wonder why when Southport - Oxford Road via Chat Moss is running no 769s are used, they can clearly go via Chat Moss.

When starting from Wigan North Western a 769 can be in AC mode all the way to Oxford Road. But from Southport it would not reach the wires until Wigan Station Junction and so would have to stay in diesel mode on the WCML and Chat Moss line (power changeover not permitted on the move). There would then be little advantage compared with use of a DMU.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Feb 2024 ==

How come the 769s are not doing the full route from bolton to stalybridge on electric, if the stalybridge line is now live?

Have the wires to Stalybridge yet been cleared for service use?

 

[jonesy3001]

When starting from Wigan North Western a 769 can be in AC mode all the way to Oxford Road. But from Southport it would not reach the wires until Wigan Station Junction and so would have to stay in diesel mode on the WCML and Chat Moss line (power changeover not permitted on the move). There would then be little advantage compared with use of a DMU.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Feb 2024 ==


Have the wires to Stalybridge yet been cleared for service use?

Went live on new year's day, supposed to have been tested a few weeks ago, unless they're doing it next week when the rest of the wires are up.

 

[td97]

Have the wires to Stalybridge yet been cleared for service use?

Went live on new year's day, supposed to have been tested a few weeks ago, unless they're doing it next week when the rest of the wires are up.

No, there's EMC (electromagnetic compatibility) issues to resolve. The testing is robust, and the OLE will be authorised for passenger service when it is safe to do so.

 

[jonesy3001]

Be may then before we see an electric train using the wires.

 

[507020]

I have noticed that today, during the Westhoughton line blockade, 769434 has been working some of the peak Wigan North Western - Victoria via Golborne services that are booked to a 331. Meanwhile 456 and 458 have been shuttling between Bolton and Oxford Road, also entirely under the wires.

Now that all the 319s are out of service and the 331 fleet is stretched I suppose it makes sense to use the 769s as EMUs on occasions like this.

Ignoring the Bolton runs which are their booked diagrams, but cut back from Southport to Bolton, is this the first instance of a 769 ever substituting for another unit’s electric diagram on anything other than a Southport service? A 769 via Chat Moss is infinitely better than the use of a 2 car Sprinter under the wires and of course comparable to the 319s that ran the service until recently.

It happened on both Tuesday and Thursday, but is unlikely to happen again once Parbold reopens.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Ignoring the Bolton runs which are their booked diagrams, but cut back from Southport to Bolton, is this the first instance of a 769 ever substituting for another unit’s electric diagram on anything other than a Southport service? A 769 via Chat Moss is infinitely better than the use of a 2 car Sprinter under the wires and of course comparable to the 319s that ran the service until recently.

It happened on both Tuesday and Thursday, but is unlikely to happen again once Parbold reopens.

As far as I'm aware of it is.
Most of the time the 769s are busy with Southport, and in the past 319s were used.

 

[Geeves]

The problem with 769s on the Wigan via Golborne work is it seems lots of people still don't sign them so its back to being partly a 156 today

Summary of the day

424 and 456 out

431 and 450 Allerton

434, 442 448 - Springs Branch

458 Newton Heath

 

[AM9]

The problem with 769s on the Wigan via Golborne work is it seems lots of people still don't sign them so its back to being partly a 156 today

Summary of the day

424 and 456 out

431 and 450 Allerton

434, 442 448 - Springs Branch

458 Newton Heath

It's interesting that a class of train so maligned here, is becoming a preferred stand-in when EMUs are unavailable and the dafault was 150s.

 

[Greybeard33]

It's interesting that a class of train so maligned here, is becoming a preferred stand-in when EMUs are unavailable and the dafault was 150s.

When operating in AC mode a 769 is effectively just a 319 carrying a bit of extra weight. It is unfortunate that the weight prevents it taking advantage of the MU differential speeds on the Bolton line, but other than that it is no worse and no better than a 319. It was the initial unreliability in diesel mode that attracted most of the past criticism on this thread.

However, now that their 319 siblings have headed off to the Newport graveyard, the last eight operational 769s suffer even more from being a micro fleet, reliant on a limited number of drivers retaining the necessary traction knowledge.