Popup Stations

[fegguk]

Does this idea from the Scottish Green make any sense? Could temporary station be delivered for the cost indicated give the costs and difficulties of getting anything done on the rail network. https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...ld-test-passenger-demand-say-greens-1-4681566

“Pop-up” rail stations should be built to test passenger demand at new stops, the Scottish Greens have urged. The party said temporary halts would help make the case for permanent new stations.

Finance secretary Derek Mackay has agreed to consider a new “pipeline” fund of up to £2 million to develop new stations and lines.

It was prompted by the Greens’ concern that no new rail projects have been proposed by Scottish Government agency Transport Scotland since it was created 12 years ago. New stations on existing lines which have opened since 2006, such as Edinburgh Gateway and Laurencekirk, had been previously approved.

Consultants Allan Rail, run by former Transport Scotland rail official David Prescott, have suggested around 20 possible pop-up station sites across Scotland.

They are in addition to plans already being considered for stations at Beattock, Eastriggs and Thornhill in Dumfries and Galloway. Other possible candidates include Dunragit or Glenluce on the Stranraer line, and on the lines east of Inverness. Allan Rail has also proposed re-opening of the Dyce-Ellon line in Aberdeenshire, the Alloa-Dunfermline line, and branches to St Andrews and Levenmouth....

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I seem to remember talk of such things once Workington North had served its purpose... though that station was of course a reaction to an extreme situation, and was built by the military.

Using a similar approach away from emergencies is a nice idea, but there is a problem: a local authority wants to test the waters so a pop-up station is built, and served by the hourly stopping service that runs on the line. It proves a success and the powers that be all agree that it should become permanent... so it closes for 6-9 months whilst a more substantial replacement is built. In the meantime, those that used the pop-up version have had to find alternatives: some stuck with RRBs or switched to the service bus and will likely switch back, but some have bitten the bullet and bought cars or motorcycles: those people are unlikely to return to the railway any time soon.

EDIT: Apologies to the OP if the above seems overly negative. I actually like the idea in principle. My scepticism comes from how convoluted seemingly sensible ideas become once the railway gets involved!

 

[route:oxford]

With anti-rail protestors across the media and on these very forums absolutely furious about the opening of Edinburgh Gateway (which sees more than a quarter of a million passengers a year) - there'll be outrage if any of these stations open.

 

[Darandio]

I seem to remember talk of such things once Workington North had served its purpose... though that station was of course a reaction to an extreme situation, and was built by the military.

Just to clarify, the military didn't build Workington North station, Network Rail did. The military did build a temporary footbridge over the river.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Just to clarify, the military didn't build Workington North station, Network Rail did. The military did build a temporary footbridge over the river.

Ok, thanks. I knew they'd been involved in the relief efforts and have probably just got my wires crossed in the intervening years. My thinking was that you couldn't exactly bring the military in to see if a station next to Elland Road stadium would get much use- but if the military weren't involved in Workington North anyway, in theory that's less of a hindrance!

It may be though that the only way that governments would release funding to build these temporary stations is in an emergency.

 

[Elecman]

I seem to remember talk of such things once Workington North had served its purpose... though that station was of course a reaction to an extreme situation, and was built by the military.

Using a similar approach away from emergencies is a nice idea, but there is a problem: a local authority wants to test the waters so a pop-up station is built, and served by the hourly stopping service that runs on the line. It proves a success and the powers that be all agree that it should become permanent... so it closes for 6-9 months whilst a more substantial replacement is built. In the meantime, those that used the pop-up version have had to find alternatives: some stuck with RRBs or switched to the service bus and will likely switch back, but some have bitten the bullet and bought cars or motorcycles: those people are unlikely to return to the railway any time soon.

EDIT: Apologies to the OP if the above seems overly negative. I actually like the idea in principle. My scepticism comes from how convoluted seemingly sensible ideas become once the railway gets involved!

The Military had nothing to do with Workington North, it was built by Network Rail

 

[furnessvale]

Most of the additional stations in Greater Manchester built a few years ago were built in a quick "pop up" way. The idea being that if not successful they could just as quickly be removed.

I think all have survived.

 

[Ianno87]

Most of the additional stations in Greater Manchester built a few years ago were built in a quick "pop up" way. The idea being that if not successful they could just as quickly be removed.

I think all have survived.

They (Lostock Parkway being an example) were built under the Experimental stations rule, so could be closed within 5 years of opening if unsuccessful. Most of the GM examples (Lostock, Hag Fold*, Hall i' th'Wood, Woodsmoor etc.) are built to the same wooden construction style. But these all date from the late 80s where getting additional stops into the timetable was much easier than today (Buckshaw Parkway was only possible through passive provision having been left for it in the Dec 2008 recast)

I know Lostock has had a fair bit of money spent on it subsequently to upgrade its 'temporary' facilities, e.g. resurfaced platform, CIS, bigger up platform shelter, bigger car park, etc.

The only experimental station I can think of that closed at the end of the experiment was the previous Corby station.

*Part of Hag Fold's platform was used for a real pop-up station - the temporary Project Light Rail statior the DLR car demonstration on part of the Fallowfield Loop

 

[Elecman]

Most of the additional stations in Greater Manchester built a few years ago were built in a quick "pop up" way. The idea being that if not successful they could just as quickly be removed.

I think all have survived.

Lostock Parkway and Hag Fold certainly were and do still survive

 

[adrock1976]

Were both the Sinfin stations in Derby ever experimental, or were they actually stations that existed from when the line opened?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The Military had nothing to do with Workington North, it was built by Network Rail

Yeah, someone's already corrected me on that, and in a far more diplomatic manner.

 

[The Quincunx]

Were both the Sinfin stations in Derby ever experimental, or were they actually stations that existed from when the line opened?

No - they went through the full closure procedure (in which I had a hand).

 

[PR1Berske]

An interesting idea. As said above, the problem could be that a success would have to close while a replacement is constructed. I would like to see if the idea was ever put into practice.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Most of the additional stations in Greater Manchester built a few years ago were built in a quick "pop up" way. The idea being that if not successful they could just as quickly be removed.

I think all have survived.

Several West Yorkshire stations of a similar vintage have the same "flatpack" construction, but I don't think they were ever intended to be temporary and I don't think ease of dismantling was a priority: getting them built cheaply was the main reason for them being built the way they were. That said, if after 3-5 years they'd clearly been a failure it may have been easier to close them than it would be to close Breich for example.

 

[yorksrob]

Using a similar approach away from emergencies is a nice idea, but there is a problem: a local authority wants to test the waters so a pop-up station is built, and served by the hourly stopping service that runs on the line. It proves a success and the powers that be all agree that it should become permanent... so it closes for 6-9 months whilst a more substantial replacement is built. In the meantime, those that used the pop-up version have had to find alternatives: some stuck with RRBs or switched to the service bus and will likely switch back, but some have bitten the bullet and bought cars or motorcycles: those people are unlikely to return to the railway any time soon.

The temporary station wouldn't have to be in exactly the same place. You could site it so that a more permanent station could be built the other side of a road bridge, for example, with the temporary station remaining open during construction.

I think anything to improve the onerous cost/rigmarole of opening a new station would be good.

Another, perhaps better solution, would be to go for modular concrete sections which could be cheaply put together and become permanent if successful, or dismantled and reused elsewhere if not. Some concrete platforms on the Southern Railway were reused in this way.

 

[BantamMenace]

A wooden deck like those seen in West Yorkshire at Steeton, Crossflatts and Saltaire amongst others would've more than sufficed for the new stations at Kirkstall Forge and Apperley Bridge if you could provided step free access still. This would not only allow them to be delivered quicker and cheaper but also mean they could be moved easier if the money ever becomes available to 4-track the line between Leeds and Shipley.

This is the form of construction that should be installed at Cross Hills on the Airedale line as well, there is so much less risk associated with delivering stations much more affordably. In some circumstances it will also hand the ability to local councils to get stations added within their budgets.

This would've been a far better solution for Kenilworth as well.

It'd also please a lot of people in the East West Rail thread if the recently descoped platforms were reinstated at the originally intended length using some form of light construction extensions.

 

[noddingdonkey]

Was the Leeds (Whitehall) temporary station ever reused? The marketing blurb at the time was that it was of a modular construction that would be reused elsewhere.

 

[Altnabreac]

The pipeline fund is a good idea. Pop up stations are less sensible. You can’t drive permanent changes in commuting patterns, development, house building etc with temporary stations.

On the list the Scotsman gives 2 are already funded (Winchburgh, Auchenback) 2 would have awful business cases owing to sparse services (Rhu, Shandon), 1 would be impossible to timetable (Kittybrewster), 1 would be hard to timetable and slow down more people than it ever served so would have a terrible business case (Newburgh).

That leaves 11 worth looking at but really some of those would need more than a pop up station as they would need time to build up a service and grow demand. I’d rather see five of those eleven done properly than ten of them done badly and undermine the whole concept.

 

[backontrack]

This seems like it would be an ideal solution for Haxby, Gilsland and Culgaith.

 

[furnessvale]

Several West Yorkshire stations of a similar vintage have the same "flatpack" construction, but I don't think they were ever intended to be temporary and I don't think ease of dismantling was a priority: getting them built cheaply was the main reason for them being built the way they were. That said, if after 3-5 years they'd clearly been a failure it may have been easier to close them than it would be to close Breich for example.

Indeed they were built cheaply.

So far as potential closure goes, I believe (but stand to be corrected) that all were built under the Speller amendment so that full closure procedure was not required.

 

[Tio Terry]

Whilst I fully support the principle of "pop-up"stations, please bear in mind the need to meet the Technical Specification For Interoperability for Persons of Reduced Mobility - even if you argue that this does not apply to a temporary structure, the Equalities Act does and that amounts to the same thing. Lifts, or access ramps need to be provided, the ability to move from platform to platform, access to the public road and car park facilities etc.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Whilst I fully support the principle of "pop-up"stations, please bear in mind the need to meet the Technical Specification For Interoperability for Persons of Reduced Mobility - even if you argue that this does not apply to a temporary structure, the Equalities Act does and that amounts to the same thing. Lifts, or access ramps need to be provided, the ability to move from platform to platform, access to the public road and car park facilities etc.

That's a valid point, and whilst an "experimental" station which didn't meet those requirements might be acceptable there would really need to be provision to correct those omissions once the new station became permanent.

 

[pdeaves]

The only experimental station I can think of that closed at the end of the experiment was the previous Corby station.

Have a look at http://www.railwaycodes.org.uk/misc/experimental.shtm. Some other 'experimental' stations have closed over the years, but mainly because something better came along (e.g. Heathrow Interchange closed because the full line opened).

 

[The Quincunx]

Was the Leeds (Whitehall) temporary station ever reused? The marketing blurb at the time was that it was of a modular construction that would be reused elsewhere.

I have a notion it turned up at Greenhithe.

 

[backontrack]

I for one would love to see a new initiative of building stations in the UK, and I think that 'experimental' stations would be a good way of doing this.

So here's a list for a tranche of 40 new stations for England & Wales and 10 for Scotland. All these are on extant lines at least:

Marazion, Cornwall
Plympton, Devon
Cullompton, Devon
Wellington, Somerset
Saltford, Somerset
Thornbury
Corsham
Royal Wootton Bassett
Wilton
Oakley
Ashford Kingsnorth
Wixams
Kirby Muxloe
Desford
Bagworth
Coalville
Ashby-de-la-Zouch
Swadlincote South
Cherry Willingham
Hemsworth
Horbury
Elland
Cross Hills & Kildwick
Haxby
Lea Green
Culgaith
Gilsland
Seghill
New Hartley & Seaton Delaval
Newsham
East Bedlington
Ashington
Newbiggin Road
Caerleon
Undy & Magor
Hirwaun
St Clears
Llangefni
Llanerchymedd
Amlwch
Eastriggs
Ravenscraig
Bonnybridge
Halbeath
Windygates & Cameronbridge
Methil & Leven
Errol
Newtonhill
Evanton
Halkirk

 

[DarloRich]

I seem to remember talk of such things once Workington North had served its purpose... though that station was of course a reaction to an extreme situation, and was built by the military

no it wasn't! it was built by NR inside 6 days.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

no it wasn't! it was built by NR inside 6 days.

Yes, I've already been corrected on that multiple times...

Seems to be a point of contention for some, so I'd like to formally apologise for not giving Network Rail the credit they deserve for Workington North. Several years have passed and I remembered military involvement in some of the relief efforts but misremembered which agencies did what. This was clearly a mistake. From now, I will only respond on this matter to comments by forum members who have never made such a mistake themselves!

As you were...

 

[DarloRich]

Yes, I've already been corrected on that multiple times...

Seems to be a point of contention for some, so I'd like to formally apologise for not giving Network Rail the credit they deserve for Workington North. Several years have passed and I remembered military involvement in some of the relief efforts but misremembered which agencies did what. This was clearly a mistake. From now, I will only respond on this matter to comments by forum members who have never made such a mistake themselves!

As you were...

no worries - i should be fine

I for one would love to see a new initiative of building stations in the UK, and I think that 'experimental' stations would be a good way of doing this.

I would suggest this idea would only be suitable for secondary, quiet lines. Not sure I want a temporary platform alongside the MML at Wixams!

 

[Altnabreac]

I for one would love to see a new initiative of building stations in the UK, and I think that 'experimental' stations would be a good way of doing this.

So here's a list for a tranche of 40 new stations for England & Wales and 10 for Scotland. All these are on extant lines at least

Extant is exaggerating it for Levenmouth. Obviously Levenmouth has a decent business case but the infrastructure really isn’t there to just start running services to pop up stations. New track and signalling required as well at a minimum. I'll give you a very rough analysis of the other Scottish ones:

Eastriggs

Village with a population of around 1,800. No major housebuilding planned. Carlisle and Dumfries are OK but not great commuter markets. Using Annan as a comparator station and adjusting for relative population gives an annual usage estimate of 27,000 entries and exits.

Ravenscraig

Development Area with excellent potential but slow rate of build currently. 450 houses complete and 550 more planned by 2021 so could be a population of around 2,300 by that point. Bigger issue is a lack of services with no regular service using the line currently so would need a Hamilton Circle or Whifflet service extended to Wishaw to even give an hourly service. Using Carfin as a comparator station and adjusting for relative population gives an annual usage estimate of 120,000 entries and exits.

Bonnybridge

Population somewhere between 600 (High Bonnybridge), 8,000 (Bonnybridge and Greenhill) 25,000 (Denny, Dunipace, Banknock and Bonnybridge). Capacity and timetabling likely to be the main issues. May require expensive junction improvements at Greenhill. Option of a station at Allandale (as suggested in the Scotsman article) may be easier to deliver as would not conflict with Intercity services. Viability of an Allandale service would probably need the 2tph Cumbernauld – Edinburgh service to be running. Either station location would involve a large proportion of Park and Ride and would likely be extractive of other local stations. Using Cumbernauld as a comparator station and adjusting for relative population gives an annual usage estimate of 95,000 entries and exits.

Halbeath

Crossgates has a population of 2,500 plus the Park and Ride. Likely that most P&R users have a closer rail station with faster services to Edinburgh so current users will primarily be those who work closer to bus routes, prefer cheaper services or have car parking issues at their local rail station. Cheaper solution may be more parking at Fife rail stations. Using Cardenden as a comparator station and adjusting for relative population but then giving a (probably generous) 100% uplift for P&R potential gives an annual usage estimate of 54,000 entries and exits.

Errol

Population of 1,300, almost a mile distant from the station and poor quality unlit walking route. Also a lack of services to serve the station although future Glasgow – Dundee semi fasts could be of use here. Using Invergowrie as a comparator station and adjusting for relative population gives an annual usage estimate of 3,000 entries and exits. A regular service might help here but even using as a comparator somewhere like Dunkeld suggests 20,000 entries and exits as an upper limit.

Newtonhill

Population of 3,000 but busy section of line with lack of services for local stops. Might be more achievable once new Montrose – Inverurie local service starts. Using Portlethen as a comparator station and adjusting for relative population gives an annual usage estimate of 20,000 entries and exits.

Evanton

Population of 1,400 and quite distant from inverness for commuting. Far North Line journey times already slow so may only get calls in commuter extras. Using Alness as a comparator station and adjusting for relative population gives an annual usage estimate of 6,000 entries and exits.

Halkirk

Population of around 1,000. Could make sense as part of a scheme replacing Scotscalder and Georgemas Junction with a single location. Using combined figures for those two stations with a 50% uplift to reflect the better location gives an annual usage estimate of 2,500 entries and exits.

So really the only strongly viable re-openings on that list are Bonnybridge and Ravenscraig. And Ravenscraig really needs a permanent station to try and encourage the house-building to increase in pace and justify the running of additional services to serve the station.

 

[backontrack]

Extant is exaggerating it for Levenmouth. Obviously Levenmouth has a decent business case but the infrastructure really isn’t there to just start running services to pop up stations. New track and signalling required as well at a minimum. I'll give you a very rough analysis of the other Scottish ones:

Eastriggs

Village with a population of around 1,800. No major housebuilding planned. Carlisle and Dumfries are OK but not great commuter markets. Using Annan as a comparator station and adjusting for relative population gives an annual usage estimate of 27,000 entries and exits.

Ravenscraig

Development Area with excellent potential but slow rate of build currently. 450 houses complete and 550 more planned by 2021 so could be a population of around 2,300 by that point. Bigger issue is a lack of services with no regular service using the line currently so would need a Hamilton Circle or Whifflet service extended to Wishaw to even give an hourly service. Using Carfin as a comparator station and adjusting for relative population gives an annual usage estimate of 120,000 entries and exits.

Bonnybridge

Population somewhere between 600 (High Bonnybridge), 8,000 (Bonnybridge and Greenhill) 25,000 (Denny, Dunipace, Banknock and Bonnybridge). Capacity and timetabling likely to be the main issues. May require expensive junction improvements at Greenhill. Option of a station at Allandale (as suggested in the Scotsman article) may be easier to deliver as would not conflict with Intercity services. Viability of an Allandale service would probably need the 2tph Cumbernauld – Edinburgh service to be running. Either station location would involve a large proportion of Park and Ride and would likely be extractive of other local stations. Using Cumbernauld as a comparator station and adjusting for relative population gives an annual usage estimate of 95,000 entries and exits.

Halbeath

Crossgates has a population of 2,500 plus the Park and Ride. Likely that most P&R users have a closer rail station with faster services to Edinburgh so current users will primarily be those who work closer to bus routes, prefer cheaper services or have car parking issues at their local rail station. Cheaper solution may be more parking at Fife rail stations. Using Cardenden as a comparator station and adjusting for relative population but then giving a (probably generous) 100% uplift for P&R potential gives an annual usage estimate of 54,000 entries and exits.

Errol

Population of 1,300, almost a mile distant from the station and poor quality unlit walking route. Also a lack of services to serve the station although future Glasgow – Dundee semi fasts could be of use here. Using Invergowrie as a comparator station and adjusting for relative population gives an annual usage estimate of 3,000 entries and exits. A regular service might help here but even using as a comparator somewhere like Dunkeld suggests 20,000 entries and exits as an upper limit.

Newtonhill

Population of 3,000 but busy section of line with lack of services for local stops. Might be more achievable once new Montrose – Inverurie local service starts. Using Portlethen as a comparator station and adjusting for relative population gives an annual usage estimate of 20,000 entries and exits.

Evanton

Population of 1,400 and quite distant from inverness for commuting. Far North Line journey times already slow so may only get calls in commuter extras. Using Alness as a comparator station and adjusting for relative population gives an annual usage estimate of 6,000 entries and exits.

Halkirk

Population of around 1,000. Could make sense as part of a scheme replacing Scotscalder and Georgemas Junction with a single location. Using combined figures for those two stations with a 50% uplift to reflect the better location gives an annual usage estimate of 2,500 entries and exits.

So really the only strongly viable re-openings on that list are Bonnybridge and Ravenscraig. And Ravenscraig really needs a permanent station to try and encourage the house-building to increase in pace and justify the running of additional services to serve the station.

If the Lentran Loop went ahead then an hourly frequency would be possibly between Inverness and Tain, so you could give Evanton a bi-hourly frequency at least.

Errol would fit into the hourly new Glasgow-Dundee-Carnoustie-Arbroath service. Newtonhill would slide neatly onto the Aberdeen CrossRail services.

Remember that this is for experimental platforms only. I'm not saying 'build it and they will come', but it's a good way of testing the waters - otherwise you may as well be building standard stations.

Cambus/Tullibody, Clackmannan and Kincardine would also be possibilities.