Poor timetabling

[Goatboy]

This is a frequent and frustrating occurance on a Sunday evening:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P07147/2013/07/14/advanced

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P05693/2013/07/14/advanced

Essentially, 1W08 is, as usual about 10 late and as a result 2E46 is held at Norton Junction for about 10 minutes in order to let 1W08 pass.

Is this done because of a lack of platform space or something?

Also, given that this train is 10 minutes late into Worcester probably about as often as its on time, would it not make sense to re-time it? This would have other benefits - during the week, 2E46 (or a train in the same path!) actually runs to Great Malvern. On Sundays it goes only as far as Worcester and instead 1W08 runs through to Hereford.

But there is no connection from 2E46 to 1W08 meaning that if you are travelling from Cheltenham and stations South to Malvern and Hereford you face a 1 hour 20 minute wait at Worcester on a Sunday - make the same journey on the same train on a weekday and you get straight through.

It seems to be that re-timing 1W08 would:

a) Stop it being late, constantly
b) Stop it holding up an on-time 2E46
c) Remove the 1 hour 20 minute gap for people travelling to Malvern and Hereford by allowing 2E46 to connect with 1W08.

I'm sure there is a fairly simple explanation for why none of this is possible, but I fancied a rant. Sunday connections to and from the Malverns to the South West are fairly terrible in both directions with lengthy (1 hour plus) waits at Worcester (The other direction there are no longer any connections since the re-jig of the LM Hereford services broke all the connections at Worcs with the FGW Bristol services).

 

[The Planner]

First find out what the root causes are to the delays to the class 1, are they the same or is their a pattern. You don't just retime a train because it is late a lot. Seeing as they are both FGW then I strongly suspect they have specified the regulation policy for them both. Bear in mind that if you retime the class 1 it cant pass Norton Jn until the class 2 is on the doorstep of Worcester. Where do you put the time in? Hold it at Evesham or somewhere else? I suspect it wouldnt be able to go later South of Oxford.

 

[Oscar]

You don't just retime a train because it is late a lot.

Surely a timetable is supposed to be reliable? A train running late frequency should at least be a cause for concern among timetable planners.

 

[Goatboy]

You don't just retime a train because it is late a lot.

No, but you could retime it becuase its both late a lot *and* because if it was timetabled to arrive at the time it pretty much always does anyway it would provide a valuable additional connection to compensate for the path it removes by existing in the first place.

 

[The Planner]

Surely a timetable is supposed to be reliable? A train running late frequency should at least be a cause for concern among timetable planners.

Not if the delay cause is being attributed elsewhere, it will cause FGW concern as it effects them, but unless it is going to the NR timetable then no.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

No, but you could retime it becuase its both late a lot *and* because if it was timetabled to arrive at the time it pretty much always does anyway it would provide a valuable additional connection to compensate for the path it removes by existing in the first place.

You need to speak to FGW then and suggest it to them, we won't retime unless it is caused by bad timetabling or requested by the TOC.

 

[BestWestern]

First find out what the root causes are to the delays to the class 1, are they the same or is their a pattern. You don't just retime a train because it is late a lot. Seeing as they are both FGW then I strongly suspect they have specified the regulation policy for them.

FGW have a general policy of High Speed services being given regulation priority over local 'West' services. If 1W08 is indeed HSS - I'm flying by mobile app here and it's too fiddly to go routing around for the details! - that could be at play here. A notice was issued to crew regarding this policy a few years back, one of the justifications being that the HSS services make nearly all of the money.

 

[D1009]

How many people travel from stations south of Worcester to Malvern and Hereford? Yes I know FGW advertise a through service between Great Malvern and Brighton, but when I used it I noticed about 95% of the people on it from the Malverns alighted at the Worcester stations. Retiming 1W08 would inconvenience the many to satisfy the very few.

 

[Goatboy]

How many people travel from stations south of Worcester to Malvern and Hereford? Yes I know FGW advertise a through service between Great Malvern and Brighton, but when I used it I noticed about 95% of the people on it from the Malverns alighted at the Worcester stations. Retiming 1W08 would inconvenience the many to satisfy the very few.

Quite a lot - not on long distance through services like those from Brighton but on connecting XC services via Bristol or Cheltenham. It's a real pain of a route connection wise as it always seems first to be ignored - ie when London Midland improved the Sunday Hereford services and broke all the connections with the FGW services to Cheltenham.

Ticketing restrictions and easements prevent these customers using alternative services via either Birmingham New Street or Bromsgrove so most rely on the semi-frequent Bristol/Cheltenham to Worcester/Malvern FGW services.

Given that 1W08 is often 10 late anyway the inconvenice is already there Every other day bar Sunday the Class 2 runs through to Malvern - yet on the Sunday because of 1W08 arriving a matter of minutes beforehand the Class 2 arrives in Worcester with an 80 minute gap until the next service to connect onwards with.