Poor customer service

[hassaanhc]

Yes, agree with others here about the scrapping reservations automatically with advances, the system at LM and I believe SWT where you get the reservation portion of an advance with the train time and simply coach * seat *** seems to work fine, very very few complain about it.
The policy on most TOCs where the cheapest tickets get a seat guaranteed and the most expensive are left to pick over what's left is totally backward to common sense really.

But then SWT (and Southern) don't do seat reservations at all.

 

[trentside]

But then SWT (and Southern) don't do seat reservations at all.

But nor does their system guarantee seats to only those with the cheapest tickets.

 

[Greenback]

Good point, well presented.

Agreed.

Yes, agree with others here about the scrapping reservations automatically with advances, the system at LM and I believe SWT where you get the reservation portion of an advance with the train time and simply coach * seat *** seems to work fine, very very few complain about it.
The policy on most TOCs where the cheapest tickets get a seat guaranteed and the most expensive are left to pick over what's left is totally backward to common sense really.

Quite. On ATW it seems to work well. That may be helped by the nature of the routes like south Wales to Manchester/north Wales, where there a lot of smaller passenger flows against very few who are traveling the whole way.

I have to agree with the last few posts. Chiltern Mainline is a good example of services which have Advance tickets but no reservations, and from what I saw it didn't cause any issues - and indeed, unless the train is busy I rarely use my reserved seat if there is a better one available.

I can't speak for Chiltern, as I've only ever used them once, but by the sound of it it works well there too.

As for the £10 fee, I agree with HHF that there have been instructions issued to this effect - and I was once told off by a manager for issuing a free set of altered reservations for a couple on Advance tickets. I think this is something you can shop around for though - you may find some clerks who will do it for free.

That's perfectly possible. good reasons have been given for making a charge that is more than the actual cost of doing the work, but as yet as I haven't seen anything persuasive to convince me that charging a nominal sum or nothing at all would be beneficial when looking at the bigger picture.

 

[455driver]

I don't think there should be seat reservations for advanced travel. You should be tied to the particular train, but have to either find your own seat or stand. Those paying full fare should have the option of reserving a seat of their choice should they so choose.

Some TOC's use this system for advanced fares, so it's perfectly possible.

On SWT you are reserved to a train, they dont do seat reservations.

 

[afyutr]

I'm sure when buying advances on sites where you can select your own seats I have been faced in the past with only being able to select some of the 'less desirable' seats (a seat is a seat in my opinion and having used Virgin a lot I'm happy to get one). I assumed this was because Advance tickets only allowed certain seats to be reserved.

£10 is ridiculous for changing a seat number. Hence I'd never do it. If it's done under the auspices of "change of travel plans" then that is total rubbish and they may as well charge you for taking tuna sandwiches instead of cheese, or asking for a Coke at the shop and then deciding you actually want a can of Stella. The again, just an opinion and will of course differ from the view of the operator.

 

[GarethJohn]

If you travel alone and reserve one seat then does the one next to it also become reserved? Would you be bothered if you reserved a Window seat and someone got on before you and sat in it instead of the unreserved aisle seat?
I've traveled unreserved and noticed the reserved sign but as it was from the Station I joined and no body was sitting in it I sat in it, then the person who had reserved a seat appeared later I asked if She would like me to move but She was OK and sat on the Aisle seat. IF both seats had been reserved separately then the other Person had either not traveled or sat somewhere else, which is the problem with reserved seats. If the reserver chooses to sit somewhere else or not travel then people will spend so much time looking for an unreserved seat and will even choose to stand rather than sit in a reserved seat and can become an issue especially if they have kids or luggage.
Reserved seats or just booking tickets early can give an indication on how busy a Trains going to be but rarely do I see an operator addressing the problem of the Train overcrowding even if they know it is going to be Weeks, Months or even when it's a pattern that occurs at the same time every year such as end of University term time's.
Once I saw Wales & Borders include an additional Loco hauled train for the annual Jewish holiday at Aberystwyth to support the regular service, Why didn't ARRIVA think to continue it and include it for the Uni's end of term time when lots of luggage space is needed?
There are Spare set's available on a Sunday, the Students will book well in advance a whole 2 Carriage why not add a set or two?

 

[Greenback]

If you travel alone and reserve one seat then does the one next to it also become reserved? Would you be bothered if you reserved a Window seat and someone got on before you and sat in it instead of the unreserved aisle seat?

In my experience, it depends. Some people are very amicable and have no particular desire to sit in a given seat. They are happy to sit in the aisle or window seat. Others are different, they want to look out of the window or whatever.

It will depend on how busy the train is too. I've had to reluctantly move people at Manchester Piccadilly on a very busy TPE train, but they got off at Stalybridge anyway. If there had been spare seats I'd have gone somewhere else!

On the other hand, the single woman on an XC train with no reservation displays and quite a few spare seats elsewhere was absolutely adamant that she wanted to sit in my seat and split me and the missus up, forcing me to sit in one of the spare single seats. She didn't succeed, much to her annoyance.

I've traveled unreserved and noticed the reserved sign but as it was from the Station I joined and no body was sitting in it I sat in it, then the person who had reserved a seat appeared later I asked if She would like me to move but She was OK and sat on the Aisle seat. IF both seats had been reserved separately then the other Person had either not traveled or sat somewhere else, which is the problem with reserved seats. If the reserver chooses to sit somewhere else or not travel then people will spend so much time looking for an unreserved seat and will even choose to stand rather than sit in a reserved seat and can become an issue especially if they have kids or luggage.

People do tend to choose unreserved seats, but on ATW around here there are few people who wont' check the reservation and sit in the seat. Perhaps people have learnt that when getting on at Llanelli etc there's a high chance that reservations are from Cardiff or even further beyond, so the seat is free until then. The same applies in reverse, of course and I've seen very few instances of people standing between Cardiff and here when there are reserved seats unoccupied. And don't forget some people prefer to stand, and won't sit down whether the seat is reserved or not!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

If you travel alone and reserve one seat then does the one next to it also become reserved? Would you be bothered if you reserved a Window seat and someone got on before you and sat in it instead of the unreserved aisle seat?....

I remember booking Weekend First for a trip From Luton to Leicester, it was early on a Saturday morning and quite a quiet train, in First at least. In my carriage there was one reserved seat (mine) and three people already sat down.

I went up to where my seat was and sure enough one of the three was sat next to it. I asked if I could sit in my seat, the chap huffed a bit but moved to let me sit down.

I wasn't actually bothered if he sat back down next to me (though I think it might have been a bit awkward) but he moved a table forward and sat down.

I hadn't realised that the train manager had actually followed me down the train (I think he thought I didn't have a first class ticket), but the impression I was left with was that because I had paid less than the other chap (on a first open return (as was)) and he was already sat down, I should have found somewhere else to sit.

I actually really wanted to rant about having actually booked the seat in the first place and how the reservation coupon was a bit of a giveaway, but I doubt it would have got me anywhere.

Yes I could have sat anywhere in the carriage, but I reserved that seat.

 

[Greenback]

My view is that unless I have deliberately booked a specific seat on one of the sites where this is actually possible, then I have just reserved a seat. If there is somewhere else for me or us to sit I won't cause a fuss, but if not the person occupying the seat will be moving!

 

[GarethJohn]

If the Window seat is the one that's reserved it's just easier for the first person who gets too the seat to sit in the Window, if then the person who reserved it came on and was getting off sooner then it just makes less hassle if they sit on the aisle seat. It's only under 13's that are usually that bothered at sitting by the window or not.

 

[Abpj17]

If the Window seat is the one that's reserved it's just easier for the first person who gets too the seat to sit in the Window, if then the person who reserved it came on and was getting off sooner then it just makes less hassle if they sit on the aisle seat. It's only under 13's that are usually that bothered at sitting by the window or not.

Or those using a laptop...if you have the window seat you don't need charging wires to stretch across a stranger's lap...

 

[Nippy]

It's only under 13's that are usually that bothered at sitting by the window or not.

I disagree, if I'm on a day out on the train I will always want to sit by the window as I'm going to want to look at the passing scenery, even more so with the high backed seats that are used these days. The worse trains at the moment for me are FGW HSTs with very few tables and the high backed airline seats with an f about 12 inches in front if your face, they are to bright in side (even on half lights) and if I don't get by the window I feel sick very quickly. This doesn't happen on any other train I use including 390s (although I rarely use them because I dislike them). If I'm traveling London to Exeter I would rather travel on a 159 if I can't get into 1st on an FGW HST.

 

[Starmill]

When I'm going for a day out, I always look for a seat next to a window - and I mean an actual window not a bit of plastic. Of course, this can't be guaranteed - but it is a lot easier on a quiet train than a busy one and I consider it to be one of the things I get out of travelling by train that makes it worthwhile to choose to do so - seeing the world as it goes by.

So I'm afraid that bit about under 13s is complete nonsense. There is usually a 'window' or sometimes 'view' option in seat reservation preferences, so I will select that wherever possible.

 

[trentside]

Certainly on Fujitsu Journey Planner (aka RJIS) when booking on a Virgin Pendolino service there is a 'Window - View' option. Can't verify that it always works, but on the few occasions I booked WCML journeys I always used it.

I'm another person who likes a window - especially on scenic routes. When asked at the ticket office, I find a significant majority will express preference for a window - there aren't quite so many who prefer an aisle, mainly those doing short journeys or those with mobility issues.

 

[Starmill]

Certainly on Fujitsu Journey Planner (aka RJIS) when booking on a Virgin Pendolino service there is a 'Window - View' option. Can't verify that it always works, but on the few occasions I booked WCML journeys I always used it.

I can verify that it doesn't always work, but it certainly gives you the best shot at something the rolling stock designers did not make too easy - being able to see out of a pendolino!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Certainly on Fujitsu Journey Planner (aka RJIS) when booking on a Virgin Pendolino service there is a 'Window - View' option. Can't verify that it always works, but on the few occasions I booked WCML journeys I always used it....

It is a 'preference', unfortunately the system can't always match the seat to the preference because of the seats available. I don't know how it chooses priority order for the preferences though.

 

[boyaloud]

A charge for changes is perhaps fair, albeit a bit steep at £10 per person if a family was trying to change plans.

However, as always with the rail industry, it's all one-way. When the TOC fails to deliver my pre-booked tickets at a TVM and causes me inconvenience, they should be paying me £10.

Send them an invoice for £10 accompanied by a letter stating why they owe it to you.

 

[Greenback]

I agree. It should work both ways!

 

[Clip]

Indeed it should but that'll never happen will it


Well if its Virgin they do seem fond of chucking a few RTVs out to people.

 

[Greenback]

No, I can't see it ever happening, but the fact that it all seems so one sided to infrequent travellers merely serves to increase their frustration and anger at 'the system'.

 

[kieron]

Quite. On ATW it seems to work well. That may be helped by the nature of the routes like south Wales to Manchester/north Wales, where there a lot of smaller passenger flows against very few who are traveling the whole way.

I think it only really works for on-board staff, as not providing reservations on any web sites or via telesales means that most passengers don't bother trying to jump through the hoops needed to reserve a seat in the first place.

I can't speak for Chiltern, as I've only ever used them once, but by the sound of it it works well there too.

I don't think I've ever used Chiltern, but their web site says they only offer reservations on a few peak trains, and then only in their version of first class. Travelling without a reservation is fine if you're travelling alone, and would have no problem standing if your train is busier than usual. It's also fine if Chiltern always use trains which are longer than they need to be, although there are other TOCs which could do with the stock if so.

Having passengers wandering through a few carriages looking for a suitable seat would, to me, be a symptom of a system which doesn't work well. I don't know if that happens much on Chiltern, though.

I feel the Crosscountry way works better, especially as they definitely don't use trains which are longer than they need to be.

I was travelling on a fairly crowded Crosscountry train a while ago when a group of around a dozen people got on at Leamington. Most of them sat in their reserved seats along one side of the train. A couple of them found that someone was sitting in their seats, and decided to stand rather than ask them to move or look around for a free seat. The end result was that they ended up travelling together, and in something close to the intended level of comfort. I don't know what they should have done had they boarded a London Midland or Chiltern train instead.

While it cost Crosscountry some money to adapt trains for electronic reservation displays, a situation where reservations are strongly recommended, but are easy to make (you don't even need to prove you have a ticket) appears to me to work better than anything else I've experienced. And no question of a £10 charge to change your reserved seat.

 

[Greenback]

While it cost Crosscountry some money to adapt trains for electronic reservation displays, a situation where reservations are strongly recommended, but are easy to make (you don't even need to prove you have a ticket) appears to me to work better than anything else I've experienced. And no question of a £10 charge to change your reserved seat.

I'm afraid I can't agree with this paragraph, though the rest of your post was certainly very interesting!

Unfortunately, in my experience XC's reservations system doesn't work at all, whether you have reserved a seat or not.

 

[bb21]

Here is a controversial thought - abolish complimentary seat reservations, and charge perhaps £2 per seat per leg or ticket. Give everyone the option to reserve a seat or just a place on a given train. That should filter out many of those who reserve but don't take up their seats as you would most likely only pay for a reservation if genuinely needed.

The charge can also be variable depending on how many criteria specified by the passenger is satisfied. For example, a random seat reservation £1, each additional criteria satisfied, eg. Window/Aisle, View, Table, Forward/Back/Airline, Plug Socket, etc, 50p. Of course that requires a more accurate system on seating plans. Perhaps reduce the price of each "long-distance" ticket by 50p to compensate.

The number of reservations not taken up on some services is truly shocking.

*goes in hiding - as the world becomes more Ryanair-esque*

 

[Greenback]

Controversial, but as I mentioned briefly earlier in the thread, I can see the sort of selective seat pricing that airlines have moved to coming on trains one day. I do agree in principle with much of the a la carte pricing you find on airlines such as Ryanair, and it's telling that other airlines like BA seem to be charging for seats election now as well.

That said, I'm sure that many people will disagree, possibly quite vehemently!

 

[westv]

The number of reservations not taken up on some services is truly shocking.

Why shocking? It doesn't really matter if they aren't taken up if the TOC makes it clear when the seat is reserved from/to so somebody else can use it if needed.

 

[bb21]

Why shocking? It doesn't really matter if they aren't taken up if the TOC makes it clear when the seat is reserved from/to so somebody else can use it if needed.

Have a look on a long-distance service out of somewhere like Paddington at a reasonably busy time for example and you will see what I mean.

It doesn't help when the overwhelming majority of the seats say reserved from Paddington.

 

[westv]

Have a look on a long-distance service out of somewhere like Paddington at a reasonably busy time for example and you will see what I mean.

It doesn't help when the overwhelming majority of the seats say reserved from Paddington.

Has any TOC ever done a survey to find out why some reservations aren't taken up?

 

[bb21]

Has any TOC ever done a survey to find out why some reservations aren't taken up?

I believe there was a report published a few years back but I forgot the link to it. The figure was around 50% iirc but my memory was a little vague to say the least. Not sure whether they investigated the reasons behind it. I believe part of it was blamed on season ticket holders making multiple reservations but that was from a separate report.

 

[brendap]

Bought 1st class ticket online from A leading train company. Wasn't overly keen on the seat they gave me so contacted them and asked them if I could select another. It would cost me £10 to do!!!
What? having already had to pay £10 to move dates!!
Pretty poor customer service? Or is it just me?
Mentioned something about the National Carriage Act!!! Does this Act say get a tenner every time the customer wants to change something??
Very poor methinks.

Were you moving class on the train when you asked to change?

 

[455driver]

Has any TOC ever done a survey to find out why some reservations aren't taken up?

They tried but none of them turned up.