Poor condition of Bakerloo line stock

[Nippy]

The Carriage Wash Road at Stonebridge Park has unavailable since the start of the year for reasons I’m not prepared to share. But it should be available again in the near future so hopefully the outside will get a clean up at least. The interior state of these trains is a disgrace.

 

[boiledbeans2]

The Carriage Wash Road at Stonebridge Park has unavailable since the start of the year for reasons I’m not prepared to share. But it should be available again in the near future so hopefully the outside will get a clean up at least. The interior state of these trains is a disgrace.

I believe it's explained in post #130, with some comedic photos/videos.

 

[Thirteen]

I was on a Jubilee Line train today and they seem a lot cleaner compared to the S Stock.

 

[Nippy]

I believe it's explained in post #130, with some comedic photos/videos.

Yeah that’s not the reason that the wash road can’t be accessed. In fact we have been turning back on 21 Road, we just can’t use it to go further along it through the train wash into depot.

 

[londontransit]

I believe it's explained in post #130, with some comedic photos/videos.

I would agree to that, especially as I have a disability, an inability to ask people questions (people's attitudes when they find I can't communicate) and having to work things out on one's own merits, and the pictures/diagrams, well, yes they're comedic. All part of the work that us disabled people do, and yet in site of all that, well we're still seen as scroungers and malingerers. We just don't do things sufficiently and not with enough effort. But yes it is absolutely important to know what others (who have far more opportunity than I) think about my work.

 

[Nippy]

Small update.

The route in through the carriage wash is now open so hopefully the outside of the trains will start to improve.

 

[gfa]

Small update.

The route in through the carriage wash is now open so hopefully the outside of the trains will start to improve.

Great news. Its in an absolutely awful state at the moment, hopefully now the trains can get washed again they will start sorting out the tagging.

 

[Mikey C]

Ironically, it’s generally the 95 stock that are better maintained. Not sure what’s gone wrong with the presentation recently though. The 95 stock is a better design - being the later of the two some of the issues with the 96 stocks were ironed out. The 96 stock is now starting to become a problem child, nowhere near as bad as the 92 stock, but definitely starting to go down the troublesome road. Generally the 95 stock is still a very solid performer.

Yes, the 95s are looking rather grubby (inside and outside), whereas the 96s look remarkably good inside, you'd have thought they had been refurbished only a year or 2 ago, as everything looks so clean and fresh.

 

[Dstock7080]

Yes, the 95s are looking rather grubby (inside and outside), whereas the 96s look remarkably good inside, you'd have thought they had been refurbished only a year or 2 ago, as everything looks so clean and fresh.

Well the ‘96s were internally refurbished within the last 5-6 years, getting rid of the original yellow and turquoise finishes.

 

[Mikey C]

Well the ‘96s were internally refurbished within the last 5-6 years, getting rid of the original yellow and turquoise finishes.

I hadn't realised it was 4 years later than the work on the 95s, though in appearance it feels a lot longer!

 

[Silent]

I hadn't realised it was 4 years later than the work on the 95s, though in appearance it feels a lot longer!

I wonder why the 95ts have a lot of black soot in the interiors. I saw that the two times I recently traveled on them. I don’t remember how clean the 96ts were pre refurb but I don’t think it had as much black soot. Dirtier tunnels I guess maybe. But I’ve also heard the northern lines are hot in summer. I am certain jubilee is one of the cooler lines from my experience do the tunnels must be cleaner and better ventilated I guess???

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Mar 2025 ==

I hadn't realised it was 4 years later than the work on the 95s, though in appearance it feels a lot longer!

S8 stock, although was new at the time of Northern line refurb, don’t seem to have as grubby interiors, though far from looking new, cleaning-wise.

 

[birchesgreen]

I wonder why the 95ts have a lot of black soot in the interiors. I saw that the two times I recently traveled on them. I don’t remember how clean the 96ts were pre refurb but I don’t think it had as much black soot. Dirtier tunnels I guess maybe. But I’ve also heard the northern lines are hot in summer. I am certain jubilee is one of the cooler lines from my experience do the tunnels must be cleaner and better ventilated I guess???

Northern tunnels are older (indeed part of the Northern is the oldest part of the deep tube underground) so maybe that has something to do with the extra dirt?

 

[sh24]

Cleaner, but otherwise Bakerloo line 1972 stock still winning the prize for worst presented trains in the UK

https://flic.kr/p/2qTsz8K

https://flic.kr/p/2qTmafJ

https://flic.kr/p/2qSWDsr

https://flic.kr/p/2qSVYdN

Links to 4 photos - all showing tags and graffiti inside and out of 1972 tube stock

 

[bramling]

Cleaner, but otherwise Bakerloo line 1972 stock still winning the prize for worst presented trains in the UK

Untitled by Sh24pics, on Flickr

by Sh24pics, on Flickr

by Sh24pics, on Flickr

by Sh24pics, on Flickr

4 photos - all showing tags and graffiti inside and out of 1972 tube stock

This is pretty shocking, things weren’t that bad even in the 1980s, and that was without all the modern stuff like CCTV.

It’s sad just how much London is rapidly going downhill as a city. It really feels feral and declining now.

 

[Nym]

This is pretty shocking, things weren’t that bad even in the 1980s, and that was without all the modern stuff like CCTV.

It’s sad just how much London is rapidly going downhill as a city. It really feels feral and declining now.

Bakerloo Line trains (along with two other lines) do not have any CCTV.

 

[bluegoblin7]

This is pretty shocking, things weren’t that bad even in the 1980s, and that was without all the modern stuff like CCTV.

It’s sad just how much London is rapidly going downhill as a city. It really feels feral and declining now.

Nonsense. I won’t disagree that the graffiti problem is becoming more significant (although looking at number of contemporary sources now, I would challenge the “it wasn’t as bad in the 80s” statement), but London is as multicultural and vibrant as it has always been. It is far from a city in decline.

 

[bramling]

Bakerloo Line trains (along with two other lines) do not have any CCTV.

Even so, it’s still bad. The impression given is that people feel they can do what they like, and no one will do anything - which seems to be essentially how it is.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Mar 2025 ==

Nonsense. I won’t disagree that the graffiti problem is becoming more significant (although looking at number of contemporary sources now, I would challenge the “it wasn’t as bad in the 80s” statement), but London is as multicultural and vibrant as it has always been. It is far from a city in decline.

Completely disagree. I was in Birmingham city centre the other week, and frankly I felt a *lot* safer than I nowadays do in London. And it was cleaner and tidier too.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Mar 2025 ==

Northern tunnels are older (indeed part of the Northern is the oldest part of the deep tube underground) so maybe that has something to do with the extra dirt?

I’ve always wondered why the Northern Line does always seem dustier than many of the other lines. Yes parts are slightly older, but this shouldn’t really make that much difference. I guess the only factor might be that it maintained pure friction braking on its trains longer than elsewhere (the Victoria Line has never had this), but we’re still talking about 25 years ago now.

The 95 stock does seem to always have a layer of dust along the window bottoms and behind the seats. A change to the cleaning regime would sort this fairly readily.

 

[Silent]

Cleaner, but otherwise Bakerloo line 1972 stock still winning the prize for worst presented trains in the UK

Untitled by Sh24pics, on Flickr

by Sh24pics, on Flickr

by Sh24pics, on Flickr

by Sh24pics, on Flickr

4 photos - all showing tags and graffiti inside and out of 1972 tube stock

MTA runs Bakerloo Line maybe

 

[Thirteen]

Nonsense. I won’t disagree that the graffiti problem is becoming more significant (although looking at number of contemporary sources now, I would challenge the “it wasn’t as bad in the 80s” statement), but London is as multicultural and vibrant as it has always been. It is far from a city in decline.

Honestly, the suggestion that London has become feral and declining is frankly a load of rubbish.

 

[sh24]

Honestly, the suggestion that London has become feral and declining is frankly a load of rubbish.

London looks a little bit more bruised and battered compared to 2019, but rumours of its decline and death are greatly exaggerated.

 

[bramling]

London looks a little bit more bruised and battered compared to 2019, but rumours of its decline and death are greatly exaggerated.

Bruised and battered trains are one thing, but the symptoms elsewhere are plain to see. Feeling that one needs to have the car doors locked whilst driving through suburban London, having to be wary of riding a half-decent bike at 0500 in the morning, feeling unable to leave the car parked in suburban streets where one wouldn’t have batted an eyelid half a generation ago, and of course the stained pavement round the corner from my office which was never fully cleaned away following a fatal stabbing a couple of years ago.

Most station staff on LU say they find the job more threatening these days. Yes there were issues in the past, the Morden and Hammersmith branches in the 1980s were well known for issues, the north end of the Bakerloo and the east end of the District in the 1990s and 2000s. However what is seen now is more widespread than a few specific problem areas, and is notwithstanding the very significant investment in security measures seen since the 1980s.

For those of us who can remember what London was like in the 1990s, it’s a very sad and lamentable decline. One wonders what a visitor arriving at Paddington and getting on a Bakerloo Line train would make of London now?

 

[Mikey C]

The Bakerloo Line is uniquely bad though. TfL (and indeed the Mayor) should be getting pelters for allowing this to happen.

The cynic in me wonders if they're deliberately letting them get totally rank as part of their campaign to get the government to fund their replacements.

 

[Thirteen]

The idea that London is dying and declining seems like scaremongering clap trap from people who don't live here.

 

[generalnerd]

“it wasn’t as bad in the 80s”

The 80’s was a rough time for metro and urban rail around the world, almost everything we have now was better than then, so all those points are people looking back with rose tinted glasses.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Mar 2025 ==

The idea that London is dying and declining seems like scaremongering clap trap from people who don't live here.

Agreed. It’s just political propaganda about 90% of the time. Things are a bit dirtier but as a whole things are fine, just underfunded (a bit like the rest of the country I suppose)

 

[bramling]

The idea that London is dying and declining seems like scaremongering clap trap from people who don't live here.

Perhaps. However the fact that people might not live somewhere doesn’t invalidate their observations. Those from outside who work or visit London are indeed likely to be less acclimatised to the state that elements of the city are now in.

When you work in a city where you have to be careful about exhibiting your watch or having a conversation on your mobile in the street, it’s entirely reasonable to conclude that something’s gone awry, especially when it’s something that’s arisen or got worse.

As for political points, it’s entirely reasonable and legitimate to question how the politicians have allowed such a situation to develop. From the state of the Bakerloo line, to the violent crime stats. I’m not going to single out any particular politician, IMV they’re all as bad as each other, going back some years, and involving all the parties.

It isn’t that hard to provide a Bakerloo fleet that isn’t covered in scrawl. Clearly presenting the Bakerloo Line properly just isn’t a priority to the powers that be, either in terms of cleaning, security or law enforcement.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Perhaps. However the fact that people might not live somewhere doesn’t invalidate their observations. Those from outside who work or visit London are indeed likely to be less acclimatised to the state that elements of the city are now in.

When you work in a city where you have to be careful about exhibiting your watch or having a conversation in your mobile in the street, it’s entirely reasonable to conclude that something’s gone awry, especially when it’s something that’s arisen or got worse.

As for political points, it’s entirely reasonable and legitimate to question how the politicians have allowed such a situation to develop. From the state of the Bakerloo line, to the violent crime stats. I’m not going to single out any particular politician, IMV they’re all as bad as each other, going back some years, and involving all the parties.

It isn’t that hard to provide a Bakerloo fleet that isn’t covered in scrawl. Clearly presenting the Bakerloo Line properly just isn’t a priority to the powers that be, either in terms of cleaning, security or law enforcement.

David Gunn of the NYCTA managed the almost impossible task of clearing graffiti vandalism off the system by 1988 - yes it cost money , but it was done by focused management and processes.

The better ambience caused ridership to rise within a short period. (that and a concentrated attack on crime of all sorts) - even London sent people across to see how it was done.

 

[birchesgreen]

The idea that London is dying and declining seems like scaremongering clap trap from people who don't live here.

Maybe though my nephew said similar to me a couple of months ago and he is born and bred in the east end.

Though personally it isn't just London that is in decline...

 

[Mikey C]

When you work in a city where you have to be careful about exhibiting your watch or having a conversation on your mobile in the street, it’s entirely reasonable to conclude that something’s gone awry, especially when it’s something that’s arisen or got worse.

Well that doesn't seem to stop half of London (slight exaggeration!) from walking along while gawping at their phones.

 

[MaidaVale]

Completely disagree. I was in Birmingham city centre the other week, and frankly I felt a *lot* safer than I nowadays do in London. And it was cleaner and tidier too.

I couldn't disagree more if I tried

 

[birchesgreen]

Birmingham cleaner? Is this an example of the famous British sense of humour?