Poole Station Area - Siding Usage

[SpacePhoenix]

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.7203946,-1.9824891,124m/data=!3m1!1e3

Is the siding nearest the platforms ever used or still really needed? If it isn't could it be removed and the platform extended to allow 12 car trains to be on a straight platform (which would permit trains to couple and divide at Poole)?

 

[jopsuk]

the points just beyond the platforms access the sidings bu the stadium which very much are used.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.7209089,-1.9834291,219a,20y,90h/data=!3m1!1e3

That's probably a better view of the siding I'm thinking of, if that one were to be removed it would allow the platforms to be extended to nearly level with where the signalbox used to be

 

[swt_passenger]

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.7209089,-1.9834291,219a,20y,90h/data=!3m1!1e3

That's probably a better view of the siding I'm thinking of, if that one were to be removed it would allow the platforms to be extended to nearly level with where the signalbox used to be

No it wouldn't, the facing crossover which down trains use to enter the sidings would be within the platforms. The entry to the sidings would have to be moved. At the very least an up train stopped in the station would prevent a down train entering the sidings.

What is the actual problem you are attempting to solve? We could spend billions if every platform had to be retrospectively straightened, and what would be the benefit?

If you ignore the facing crossover, and extend as far as the siding points, then you can win about 60m, a 3 car length. But the curved section of the platform is about 120m long, so you'd only solve half your problem, and create another operational problem (the crossover).

 

[Crossover]

Correct me if I am wrong, but would the curve (which is fairly extreme) on the platform be a problem to trying to couple up trains here? I have a feeling autocouplers tend to have issues if not on straight/fairly straight track

 

[BestWestern]

I was under the impression that 12/10 car Desiro formations are prohibited beyond Bournemouth anyhow due to current supply limitations?

 

[swt_passenger]

I was under the impression that 12/10 car Desiro formations are prohibited beyond Bournemouth anyhow due to current supply limitations?

There are a few 10 car up trains that start at Poole and have been for some years.

"To Weymouth" and "beyond Bournemouth" are not really the same thing though, there are many ECS moves to Bournemouth depot (as you'd expect), and full length trains are allowed to Weymouth under controlled conditions.

 

[swt_passenger]

Correct me if I am wrong, but would the curve (which is fairly extreme) on the platform be a problem to trying to couple up trains here? I have a feeling autocouplers tend to have issues if not on straight/fairly straight track

I can't see any planned splitting and joining at Poole station itself, however some does take place in the sidings beyond.

 

[HowardGWR]

The best place for Poole station is next to the bus station (there's a revolutionary concept for you) next to Pitwines Close and the shopping centre. Plenty of room and a nice long straight there too.

 

[theironroad]

The best place for Poole station is next to the bus station (there's a revolutionary concept for you) next to Pitwines Close and the shopping centre. Plenty of room and a nice long straight there too.

plenty of room where? the bus depot parking and maintenance area seems to be bursting and is already right next to the track. where would the platforms go and associated buildings let alone a car park?

 

[DarloRich]

seeing as the siding has a stone bunker next to it and fresh looking trackwork I would suggest it is in use

 

[HowardGWR]

plenty of room where? the bus depot parking and maintenance area seems to be bursting and is already right next to the track. where would the platforms go and associated buildings let alone a car park?

There is a difference between a bus station and a bus depot and I think bus stations should not be for parking buses and the actual depot should be elsewhere. That space can be used for a combined transport interchange. as could part of the car park at Pitwine Close . There is actually quite a bit of room as well alongside the northern edge of the Close, all told. Car parks? The one at the present location is very small. If the area of the present station was turned into a multi storey (for instance), it just a short walk to the shops and the end of the projected station whose western end would start just near the High Street crossing. Besides which, look down on the area with google maps. It's festooned with car parks. A few more storeys could always be added to the open air ones.

I think that what happened at Poole was very much a legacy of the 'car is king' era. It needs the whole area to be taken in hand IMO. Where there is a will, etc.

 

[wfrank]

I have looked at Poole on goggle earth & HowardGWR's suggestion seems possible. It is certainly very desirable. The curve at Poole station seems to be incredibly tight. Are there any other platforms with such a continuously sharp curve? On accident risk & operational grounds it ought to go. And a third terminating platform in between up & down lines might be possible in HowardGWR's plan. That would allow Cross Country to reach Poole again taking no more time than it takes to get in and out of the strange Bournemouth sidings terminating complex. Well done HowardGWR.

 

[pompeyfan]

There's lots of platforms across the network that don't allow attachments because of the curvature. Clapham junction up main fast cannot be called at because of the curve. Portsmouth and Southsea high level is also pretty unique.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.717158,-1.977652,210m/data=!3m1!1e3

The current bus station is probably too small now, all the buses have to have someone seeing them back. Looking at that area there we the car park and coach stops are, it might be a better location for a new bus & coach station, then the old connection to the service road could be re-instated (tarmacd area to the left of the car park, next to the bus station building).

If Morebus moved their depot elsewhere to an industrial estate then the railway station could move there, but the sticking point would be access to the loading bays for the Sainsburys.

Are there any regs which dictate minimum platform widths for new build platforms?

 

[bb21]

Are you going to pay Wilts&Dorset for all the wasted mileage running to/from the new depot?

Poole does not need 10-car services. As someone already asked upthread, what problem are you trying to solve exactly? Remember tbere is no money lying around to be wasted, and the two stations are not exactly a million miles apart.

As someone with strong interests in the town, a waste of money.imo.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Are you going to pay Wilts&Dorset for all the wasted mileage running to/from the new depot?

Poole does not need 10-car services. As someone already asked upthread, what problem are you trying to solve exactly? Remember tbere is no money lying around to be wasted, and the two stations are not exactly a million miles apart.

As someone with strong interests in the town, a waste of money.imo.

Yellow buses have their bus depot on an industrial estate and probably a good chunk of the Morebus buses start their first route away from the bus station anyway. Any that start in the bus station could just be parked up in the stand they'd use for their first service.

afaik the only reason why Poole never has all 10 car services is the problem with coupling on a sharp curve.

The whole of the bus station train station and Dolphin Centre area needs investment

 

[SpacePhoenix]

http://www.poole.gov.uk/EasySiteWeb/GatewayLink.aspx?alId=35021

Skip to page 12 of that pdf, Poole Council have got their eye on that land anyway with the possibility of homes being built

The site is allocated for a minimum of 200 homes which we have
increased to 300 homes as it is within the Potential Tall Building Area.

That amount of homes makes me think they're thinking of blocks of flats, maybe a station building on the ground floor with flats above?

 

[bb21]

Can't remember the last time the council did anything vaguely beneficial for the town. :roll:

This has always been an area at risk of flooding, and not as far away as 2126 according to some sources. Try again Poole council. Plenty of other suitable areas for new housing without costing the earth.

 

[HowardGWR]

Can't remember the last time the council did anything vaguely beneficial for the town. :roll:

This has always been an area at risk of flooding, and not as far away as 2126 according to some sources. Try again Poole council. Plenty of other suitable areas for new housing without costing the earth.

Your contributions have only strengthened my opinion that something along the lines I suggested would be the way to go. At the moment, Poole is not a place I would wish to spend the day (or an afternoon) except perhaps the Quay, although, IMO, that also has been spoilt by much of the modern redevelopment it has suffered. It just has this tatty feel to it. This is a great pity, as the basics of Poole, with all its maritime history, could be benefited with sensitive redevelopment. including the shopping block area.

The present station is a draughty little dump, out on a limb.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Can't remember the last time the council did anything vaguely beneficial for the town. :roll:

This has always been an area at risk of flooding, and not as far away as 2126 according to some sources. Try again Poole council. Plenty of other suitable areas for new housing without costing the earth.

It can't be too much of a risk of flooding as they're building nearby:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.7204868,-1.9835649,237a,20y,90h/data=!3m1!1e3

https://boppa.poole.gov.uk/online-a...ctiveTab=documents&keyVal=_POOLE_DCAPR_229576

That's what's being built

 

[Laurencew]

Well the sidings at Poole have been used (relatively) recently to stable passenger stock.
The photos were taken on the 19th April 2008 and show a Hooton - Poole charter.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I don't think I've ever seen all the non electrified sidings in use at the same time. Even the carriage sidings don't get used as much now, ever since XC started terminating at Bournemouth instead of Poole, when Operation Princess was implemented, however many years ago. It's highly unlikely that XC will ever run again into Poole.

 

[theironroad]

I don't think I've ever seen all the non electrified sidings in use at the same time. Even the carriage sidings don't get used as much now, ever since XC started terminating at Bournemouth instead of Poole, when Operation Princess was implemented, however many years ago. It's highly unlikely that XC will ever run again into Poole.

Agreed about xc and Poole. I don't know what the timings were when xc ran to Poole, but the current set up with a turn around at Bournemouth allows recovery time for when xc is often late arriving from up country and allows for a right time departure heading north.

However, a little bay platform would work well for a swanage to Poole service

 

[HowardGWR]

Agreed about xc and Poole. I don't know what the timings were when xc ran to Poole, but the current set up with a turn around at Bournemouth allows recovery time for when xc is often late arriving from up country and allows for a right time departure heading north.

However, a little bay platform would work well for a swanage to Poole service

OK, you were somewhat TIC, but surely such a service should cater for those who wish to travel mainly to Bournemouth and probably to Southampton. I can only see a need to ensure that people can change on the same platform at Wareham onto a service that does go to those places (including Poole!).

I can't say I am very impressed with the set-up of this proposed Swanage Branch service (max speed 25mph) and would be interested if local colleagues here can assure me otherwise. It seems ironic to start a service with the same technology that ended with the line's closure.

 

[swt_passenger]

Agreed about xc and Poole. I don't know what the timings were when xc ran to Poole, but the current set up with a turn around at Bournemouth allows recovery time...

The timings at Bournemouth were the same as now (to within a couple of minutes) hence there was basically no recovery time at Poole.