Police checking travel

[DB]

Whatever people’s views about religion the Church of England is another organisation that is going to be very hardly hit financially by this pandemic. Although many people have continued to donate generously online, the historic parish churches and cathedrals have lost an enormous amount of income during this last year.

They might have to think about selling some of their vast property portfolio. Wouldn't that be a shame!

There are lot of organisations which deserve sympathy due to lost income, but the CofE is not one of them - it's an utterly rotten and self-serving organisation (this is from extensive personal experience, not uninformed prejudice), and it is far richer than most people realise - yes, individual churches might struggle but the organisation as a whole has enormous assets.

 

[david1212]

Immediately prior to Wales' "firebreak" lockdown in October it was prohibited for many Welsh residents to leave their local authority area (or enter another area) without reasonable excuse.

Whilst the usual system of reasonable excuses for things like going to the supermarket existed, the law had the specific provision that:


This led to predictable issues, particularly since there are lots of different local authorities in the populated parts of South Wales, and thus lots of people live close to their area's border. Nevertheless it is one possible approach to the problem.

For England there would be a fundamental discrepancy between counties with a single unitary council and those with a County Council and District Councils. This is an issue with tiers e.g. Northumberland.

There would be a lot of anomalies. Where I used to live is just one. To reach the town 12 miles away required travelling through an intermediate county. For the next village, in the intermediate county, this town was was nearest. Keeping within the county the nearest town would be about 20 miles. The town with the main offices of the district council is around 35 miles away. Within 25 miles in different directions are three large towns with a full range of suppliers and businesses of which two are in different counties.

Roughly south of the village I lived in is a small town that only has a small co-op supermarket and independent shops. Nearest is the town 12 or so miles north but for a full range of essential suppliers and businesses the nearest is roughly east in a different county. There used to be an arrangement with the hospital there as nearest for the town and area to the south.

Matt Hancock has defended police officers for fining two women after they drove to Derbyshire for a walk together amid lockdown

Hancock defends women fined for walking through Derbyshire

The Health Secretary urges people to follow the Covid rules: 'We haven't brought them in because we wanted to. We brought them in because we had to.'

metro.co.uk

I've just seen this. My opinion of him has varied over the last 9 months but now it has dropped significantly. Back in May he did not condemn Dominic Cummings for any aspect of his 250+ mile trip.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Here’s another top one. My friend has just told me his pal was walking down the street and a police car pulled up and said “someone fitting your description was spotted sitting on a bench outside the town hall, was it you?”

I’d love to see for example what the exemptions haters on here would do if this sort of thing started happening to their circle

 

[trainophile]

For England there would be a fundamental discrepancy between counties with a single unitary council and those with a County Council and District Councils. This is an issue with tiers e.g. Northumberland.

There would be a lot of anomalies. Where I used to live is just one. To reach the town 12 miles away required travelling through an intermediate county. For the next village, in the intermediate county, this town was was nearest. Keeping within the county the nearest town would be about 20 miles. The town with the main offices of the district council is around 35 miles away. Within 25 miles in different directions are three large towns with a full range of suppliers and businesses of which two are in different counties.

Roughly south of the village I lived in is a small town that only has a small co-op supermarket and independent shops. Nearest is the town 12 or so miles north but for a full range of essential suppliers and businesses the nearest is roughly east in a different county. There used to be an arrangement with the hospital there as nearest for the town and area to the south.

Hancock defends women fined for walking through Derbyshire

The Health Secretary urges people to follow the Covid rules: 'We haven't brought them in because we wanted to. We brought them in because we had to.'

metro.co.uk

I've just seen this. My opinion of him has varied over the last 9 months but now it has dropped significantly. Back in May he did not condemn Dominic Cummings for any aspect of his 250+ mile trip.

That's an ambiguous headline - it reads as if he defends the women, but in context it seems he defends the fining of them. Can't listen to video as OH has TV on, and there's no written text to explain the article.

 

[Richard Scott]

I trust that would result in disciplinary action. Totally unacceptable. What sort of a rough area do you teach in?

To be honest little happens and it isn't a rough area.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

"Not knowing the rules and regulations is not an excuse" - This is a statement that applies equally to the police as well as the rest of us.

It also applies to shop staff who today refused to serve a friend of mine at the checkout because she wasn’t wearing a mask (despite allowing her into the store and filling up her trolley). She is exempt and was extremely distressed, caught between abandoning her purchases or buying a mask

 

[DB]

It also applies to shop staff who today refused to serve a friend of mine at the checkout because she wasn’t wearing a mask (despite allowing her into the store and filling up her trolley). She is exempt and was extremely distressed, caught between abandoning her purchases or buying a mask

Was it a chain store? If so, enourage her to make a complaint to their customer services - it's the only way to try to stop this sort of thing.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Interesting discussion on a Facebook group I'm part of where somebody was stopped while heading to church this morning by the police and told that it wasn't a necessary journey; details were reportedly "taken".

The number of people supporting the police officer's actions was depressing, perhaps not as high as last March/April but still depressing. Somebody said they could not see a single good reason why any place of worship should be open.

Jesus Christ !

 

[6862]

Jesus Christ !

He's a good reason for places of worship to be open!

 

[185143]

Did anyone hear the Radio 5Live Stephen Nolan phone-in last night, which was on 23:00-01:00? Around 00:30 (I think, only rough timing though) a woman rang in saying that her son was a dispatcher at a Manchester station (not specified), and had asked a woman carrying a mask to put it on when she approached him with a query. She refused and gave him a mouthful of abuse, and then when she was subsequently turfed off a train due to the way she was behaving she spat in this guy's face. He had the presence of mind to take a swab for DNA identification, and they are reviewing the CCTV footage. Horrendous incident though, enough to put him off doing his job for life. Needless to say there were apparently no BTP around at the time of the incident (which we weren't told, but presumably during the day) - all too busy cross-examining innocent exercisers no doubt.

I imagine the programme is available on the BBC Sounds app, and I apologise for not being more precise about what time the call to the show was made, but I'm pretty sure it was in the last half hour or so.

And that is why rail staff are told not to attempt to enforce it and to leave it to the BTP!

To the poster who made a comment about teachers facing being spat at, do you find that issue acceptable? Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Just been hearing that some people are receiving letters to go for their jab some considerable distance from where they live, the sort of distances that would involve public transport if you don't drive. Could be interesting.

Yes, it could be very interesting.

At Epsom railway station ( the racecourse a short distance away is where one of the seven mass jab centres opening tomorrow is ) has posters up giving directions to get to the centre. The obvious implication is that they are expecting quite a large number to arrive using public transport.

This means, therefore, that assuming every other station near a centre has similar posters there is a reasonably good change that it will happen - and quite possibly even within sight of a poster giving directions to the place to which the person is going...

 

[yorkie]

I trust that would result in disciplinary action. Totally unacceptable. What sort of a rough area do you teach in?

I have some views on this but this isn't the thread. If anyone wishes to open or find a suitable thread, feel free to tag me and I'll reply with my experiences.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jan 2021 ==

To the poster who made a comment about teachers facing being spat at, do you find that issue acceptable? Two wrongs don't make a right.

They clearly do not find it acceptable and are not suggesting this. But it's a debate for a different thread.

 

[GodAtum]

It's interesting to see the flow of commuters going the other way. Now that most people aren't going into London, I'm surprised how many people go away from London in the morning. I guess doing night-shift work.

 

[Cdd89]

Adam Wagner’s Twitter thread of the opinions of serving police officers has been of great interest to me. It reinforces that upthread about how they are put in a difficult position. I am sure there is a minority of the police force that are natural authoritarians and enjoying it, but it’s clear the majority hate enforcing it and have been pressured to do so from higher up. That certainly matches my experience where enforcement has been light touch and taking people at their word.

The comments are posted as images (unfortunately) but here are a few transcriptions:

https://twitter.com/adamwagner1/status/1348361591188811781?s=21

I am ashamed and embarrassed at how some of the northern constabularies have behaved

I am glad to have invited some of the embarrassments seen by neighbouring forces over overzealous enforcement of walkers

I cringed at some of the reports in the media where police are attempting to enforce guidance, not law

The rules are a fast, and pretty much unenforceable. We hate being put in this position, we’re scared and it feels like everyone hates us.

The legislation is too wide... we don’t want to be doing this, this is a public health crisis not a public order crisis... not all of us are officiously chasing joggers, this is the biggest infringement on human rights ever

Morale among PCs is very low when it comes to enforcing the regulations... the average breach the police are called to are low risk in the grand scheme of things

Not one officer in my force likes to enforce these regulations, as they’re too busy trying to protect victims of crime

We’re surprised at how many calls we get with neighbour reporting on neighbour, we often don’t even take action after attending

We are repeatedly told we can’t stop and search our way out of knife crime, but here we are being encouraged to issue more fines presumably as a way of increasing compliance. I do worry how that will impact public confidence [in the police]

It strikes me that the majority of those calling for greater restrictions and stricter enforcement actually want us to police others but not them; they justify their own minor breaches with “well of course I’m careful / sensible”

Some of the responses are a bit disheartening; many of those who want tougher restrictions also believe that the police shouldn’t have any respect. A cynic might argue that’s why they want the police to be seen to behave in increasingly authoritarian ways.

I can’t think of a group more deserving of sympathy, myself, and apart from the 1% of officers who are clearly enjoying this, my heart goes out to them. I hope respect for the police can be recovered after this.

I personally think the Netherlands has the right approach: to the extent that it is necessary, ban the things that can be banned in black and white (household gatherings, restaurants, etc) and don’t try to impose a “you can’t leave home except” law, which is a total minefield and either unenforceable or unfair. There may be a bit less compliance but incrementally decreased Covid risk is not worth destroying trust in the police.

 

[Mag_seven]

Adam Wagner’s Twitter thread of the opinions of serving police officers has been of great interest to me. It reinforces that upthread about how they are put in a difficult position. I am sure there is a minority of the police force that are natural authoritarians and enjoying it, but it’s clear the majority hate enforcing it and have been pressured to do so from higher up. That certainly matches my experience where enforcement has been light touch and taking people at their word.

The comments are posted as images (unfortunately) but here are a few transcriptions:

https://twitter.com/adamwagner1/status/1348361591188811781?s=21

Some of the responses are a bit disheartening; many of those who want tougher restrictions also believe that the police shouldn’t have any respect. A cynic might argue that’s why they want the police to be seen to behave in increasingly authoritarian ways.

I can’t think of a group more deserving of sympathy, myself, and apart from the 1% of officers who are clearly enjoying this, my heart goes out to them. I hope respect for the police can be recovered after this.

I personally think the Netherlands has the right approach: to the extent that it is necessary, ban the things that can be banned in black and white (household gatherings, restaurants, etc) and don’t try to impose a “you can’t leave home except” law, which is a total minefield and either unenforceable or unfair. There may be a bit less compliance but incrementally decreased Covid risk is not worth destroying trust in the police.

I can't say I'm surprised - most policemen and women are just ordinary human beings just like the rest of us and are probably all as fed up with these restrictions as we are.

 

[trainophile]

I can't say I'm surprised - most policemen and women are just ordinary human beings just like the rest of us and are probably all as fed up with these restrictions as we are.

It's certainly not what they signed up for when they joined. We need a separate force, specifically for Covid legislation.

 

[Mills444]

It's certainly not what they signed up for when they joined. We need a separate force, specifically for Covid legislation.

We could call them the "brownshirts".

 

[PHILIPE]

I haven't heard anything yet of the Police apprehending Boris for travelling to a new vaccination Centre at Bristol for a photo shoot and getting in the way of the busy staff working there. Just heard of the visit on BBC TV. Surely the man should set an example as I'm certain the trip wasn't necessary.

 

[6862]

It's certainly not what they signed up for when they joined. We need a separate force, specifically for Covid legislation.

How about giving them a snappy title like Hancock's Helpers? We could shorten it to 'the HH'. Doesn't sound at all ominous or sinister.

 

[ValleyLines142]

It's still not your job to be doing this is it? Nobody is asking you to do this, and you've been asked not to, but you still are.

It's coming across like you just enjoy the confrontation. And stepping out from behind the screens is increasing the risk to you, rather than decreasing it, as well as giving a negative impression of the business, when there's already a sign on the door that says to wear a mask anyway. It all just seems very unnecessary.

My head office is.

There is no confrontation, because everybody who I serve complies.

Interestingly, this article was posted today:

Supermarket chain to refuse customers who won't wear masks without an excuse

CUSTOMERS who refuse to wear face masks will be told to leave branches of a major supermarket chain from today.

www.southwalesargus.co.uk

 

[birchesgreen]

I haven't heard anything yet of the Police apprehending Boris for travelling to a new vaccination Centre at Bristol for a photo shoot and getting in the way of the busy staff working there. Just heard of the visit on BBC TV. Surely the man should set an example as I'm certain the trip wasn't necessary.

Or questioning Boris for riding his bike for 7 miles.

 

[GodAtum]

So my friend can appeal his fine for a 6 mile bike ride as Matt Hancock said it was OK?

 

[HLE]

Or questioning Boris for riding his bike for 7 miles.

Why would they do that? Not breaking any laws or guidance.

 

[david1212]

Or questioning Boris for riding his bike for 7 miles.

So my friend can appeal his fine for a 6 mile bike ride as Matt Hancock said it was OK?

Why would they do that? Not breaking any laws or guidance.

Latest news and current events updates | Yahoo News Singapore

Discover the latest news and headlines, including on local and international breaking news and in-depth coverage with photos and videos.

ph.news.yahoo.com

Health secretary Matt Hancock has suggested Boris Johnson was right to go for a bike ride seven miles from his Downing Street home.

The Evening Standard reported on Monday how the prime minister was spotted cycling around London’s Olympic Park on Sunday afternoon.

England’s national lockdown rules state: “You can leave your home to exercise. This should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area.”

However, “local area” is not defined in the rules.

And, with the government now telling the public to “act like they have the virus” – a message repeated by Hancock himself at Monday’s Downing Street press conference – it has raised questions as to whether Johnson was right to go for the bike ride.

Another report ( I can't get the quote link to work for this )

 

[yorkie]

So my friend can appeal his fine for a 6 mile bike ride as Matt Hancock said it was OK?

If anyone is fined for a 6 mile bike ride, the fine is unlawful. There is no law against this. I would encourage people to go for a 6 mile bike ride.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jan 2021 ==

Why would they do that? Not breaking any laws or guidance.

The police have been caught fining people for not breaking laws or guidance recently, in particuar some utter scumbags at the notorious Derbyshire police.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jan 2021 ==

Adam Wagner’s Twitter thread of the opinions of serving police officers has been of great interest to me,.

I strongly recommend following him on Twitter!

 

[Kite159]

Man goes on a long bike ride and ends up 7 miles from his home... That's a crime punishable by death reading some Twitter comments...

Probably the same ones who are so holy and don't break any rules, and won't say anything when a member of parliament reading a red ribbon gets 'caught' doing something similar.

 

[david1212]

....

The police have been caught fining people for not breaking laws or guidance recently, in particuar some utter scumbags at the notorious Derbyshire police

...

The fines issued by Derbyshire Police last week to the two women have been dropped.

Fines dropped against women who drove five miles for walk and tea 'picnic'

Jessica Allen and Eliza Moore received an apology from Derbyshire Police over the incident.

metro.co.uk

Two women who were fined a total of £400 for driving five miles to go for a walk will not have to pay the penalties.

Police confirmed they have dropped the fines against Jessica Allen and Eliza Moore, who said they were ‘surrounded’ by police after driving in separate cars to Foremark Reservoir in Derbyshire.

 

[farleigh]

The police officers who issued the fine acted like idiots.

It was always going to be the case that the fines would be dropped.

 

[VauxhallandI]

The police officers who issued the fine acted like idiots.

It was always going to be the case that the fines would be dropped.

Unfortunately not before we had massive publicity about them occurring, massive publicity about the Chief Constable backing the officers up then massive publicity about Hancock backing the decision too.

Damage done, plenty more curtain twitchers fuelled up to the eyeballs with their hypocritical perfection and misguided information on law.

 

[greyman42]

Unfortunately not before we had massive publicity about them occurring, massive publicity about the Chief Constable backing the officers up then massive publicity about Hancock backing the decision too.

Now that the fines have been dropped and an apology issued, how do Hancock and the Chief Constable explain their backing of the idiot officers?