Pointless RRB

[800001]

Exactly this.

I doubt it was actually a 153 though! Thought they were long gone!

Exactly, people moan for the sake of it.

 

[Snow1964]

I mean you actually need train crew to operate a train, maybe that’s why it was cancelled?

I guess you are saying it is easier to for a railway operator to find someone who has the authorisation to hire a bus and source a bus crew rather than find train crew.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Most likely a 170.

The 1427 EMR from Lincoln->Newark Northgate does seem to have operated as a two car Class 170 yesterday.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Exactly this.

I doubt it was actually a 153 though! Thought they were long gone! Most likely a 170.

It was a 170

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Sep 2024 ==

Or go via Retford.

LNER charge you extra for that dubious privilege - and don't offer any advance fares by that route. (A split at Saxilby works though, but it still takes an hour longer)

 

[Taunton]

There was an occasion when Avanti arranged RRBs to convey their passengers between Llandudno Junction and Chester even though the possession had been cancelled and TfW had reinstated a normal service. Apparently Avanti have longer planning timescales than TfW.

This happened quite some years ago when the Bakerloo Line ran through to Watford. A possession between Willesden and Harrow on the DC lines meant an RRB between two separate sections. The works were cancelled, railway was able to drop back to normal schedule in time but Underground were unable to, and ran the shuttles, both then getting in one another's way at all points and delaying both sets of timetables. RRB ran completely unused, as it was better to wait for the following railway service.

 

[30907]

I guess you are saying it is easier to for a railway operator to find someone who has the authorisation to hire a bus and source a bus crew rather than find train crew.

A bus and crew to Newark is a lot simpler than a train to London and back

 

[800001]

I guess you are saying it is easier to for a railway operator to find someone who has the authorisation to hire a bus and source a bus crew rather than find train crew.

If there is no crew to operate it there is no crew simple, can’t magic from thin air.

And to hire a bus, the Customer Experience Manager for LNER turns there head and asks Stagecoach Rail Replacement to source a coach, they do not need to find someone with authority, they go ahead and do it!

 

[The exile]

I guess you are saying it is easier to for a railway operator to find someone who has the authorisation to hire a bus and source a bus crew rather than find train crew.

At short-ish notice almost certainly yes. After all, the coach driver needs no route knowledge and the railway couldn’t care less about how it gets to the start of its journey or what it does once it’s no longer needed.

 

[norbitonflyer]

And to hire a bus, the Customer Experience Manager for LNER turns there head and asks Stagecoach Rail Replacement to figure a coach, they do not need to find someone with authority, they go ahead and do it!

LNER has not been managed by Stagecoach since 2018

 

[800001]

LNER has not been managed by Stagecoach since 2018

Reread what I wrote!

Stagecoach Rail Replacement! They source coaches for LNER, and Chiltern, and many many others.

 

[lkpridgeon]

LNER charge you extra for that dubious privilege - and don't offer any advance fares by that route. (A split at Saxilby works though, but it still takes an hour longer)

And with that you've located where on the Sheffield to Lincoln line I used to live! It used to be accepted before SLP changes and some restriction updates a year of so ago to travel via Retford from Lincoln. Saxilby is covered by an easement I believe.

 

[En]

I guess you are saying it is easier to for a railway operator to find someone who has the authorisation to hire a bus and source a bus crew rather than find train crew.

find train crew who know the traction and the route ( or alternatively find someone allowed to conduct the train - but given the track in question and that LNER is 80x centric this is likely to be someone who could drive said traini unless borrowed from the frieght operator or EMR) ...
where organising the bus is is ' please provide bus of approved characteristics to travel betwen Lincoln Centrla and NNG on this date at these times '

 

[geoffk]

If we had "the railway" then passengers would just be able to catch the next train, without having to worry about which operator is running each train, whether there is ticket acceptance, or who to claim from in the event of a delay.

And we wouldn't end up with buses being provided when there is a perfectly good train service in operation.

Indeed. And that's what will happen again once GBR is up and running, won't it?

 

[NewarkRed]

Sunday services from Newark to Lincoln can be heavy loaded so LNER putting on a bus is hardly “pointless”

 

[norbitonflyer]

It used to be accepted before SLP changes and some restriction updates a year of so ago to travel via Retford from Lincoln. Saxilby is covered by an easement I believe.

via Retford was a higher rate as long ago as 1981 (probably longer)

 

[xotGD]

It is one thing to provide a bus if there is expected to be insufficient capacity on the following train.

It is quite another to force passengers onto a bus when there is space available on the following train, merely because of the nonsensical fragmentation of the railway.

 

[Falcon1200]

could probably have theoretically moved a replacement train from somewhere, even if something else had to be canned at Newark to provide it.

What services do LNER operate through Newark which could have been terminated there without causing huge inconvenience? Not just to the folk on that train but those on its next booked working too.

It is quite another to force passengers onto a bus when there is space available on the following train, merely because of the nonsensical fragmentation of the railway.

How busy was the EMR service expected to be - And who could possibly know before the train actually ran?

 

[GordonT]

Surely this rare example of possible erring on the side of passengers is something to applaud?

 

[norbitonflyer]

What services do LNER operate through Newark which could have been terminated there without causing huge inconvenience? Not just to the folk on that train but those on its next booked working too.

Difficult - trains to or from Lincoln have to use platform 3, which is also the only platform an LNER train could terminate in without obstructing the main running lines. So if a train from London terminates at Newark, it prevents any connection going to Lincoln whilst it sits there, nor can any connection can arrive from Lincoln.

 

[Bikeman78]

1420 Lincoln to Kings Cross cancelled
Rrb advertised to Newark despite there being an EMR trzin only seven minutes later this :with a 10 minute connection

Do you know when the bus turned up or how many people used it? Assuming it departed on time and the driver knew the route, it should have made the 1500 from Newark Northgate. I guess you took the 1427 train?

Regarding ticket acceptance, that only applies to advance or TOC specific tickets. Anyone with flexible tickets can get on any train. Happens all the time in south Wales. If GWR or TfW cancel a train everyone tries to get on the next train, whoever happens to be running it.

 

[Western 52]

This week we have RRBs running between Swansea and Carmarthen, although only Swansea to Llanelli is actually closed. Some trains are running Llanelli to Carmarthen but most are not. Why not operate more trains instead of buses?

 

[30907]

This week we have RRBs running between Swansea and Carmarthen, although only Swansea to Llanelli is actually closed. Some trains are running Llanelli to Carmarthen but most are not. Why not operate more trains instead of buses?

Llanelli is not a fully accessible station, and it doesn't have decent bus loading facilities, both of which are problematic.

 

[Western 52]

Llanelli is not a fully accessible station, and it doesn't have decent bus loading facilities, both of which are problematic.

Llanelli has been used for RRBs in the past though, I've been on them. Maybe the building work at the station for the new bridge and lifts affects bus access now.

 

[A S Leib]

I wouldn't call it pointless, but I wonder how many people will be using tonight's 00:35 York – Newcastle / Darlington RRBs.

 

[TB]

Let me get this straight.

LNER cancel their train and supply a replacement bus.

EMR have their own train to the same destination a few minutes later.

All well and good moaning about the 'duplication', but while LNER may have known how many passengers had at least reserved seats on the train, they can't be expected to know in advance how many walk up passengers there would be. Nor can it be guaranteed they'd be able to find out how many people were booked in advance on the EMR or how many walk ups there would be for that service, so providing a replacement bus as well as there being the EMR train to me seems like good customer service from LNER, going above and beyond to ensure people get where they are going with as little delay as possible.

 

[noddingdonkey]

find train crew who know the traction and the route ( or alternatively find someone allowed to conduct the train - but given the track in question and that LNER is 80x centric this is likely to be someone who could drive said traini unless borrowed from the frieght operator or EMR) ...

Is traction knowledge competency transferable between the different 80x fleets?

 

[43066]

Is traction knowledge transferable between the different 80x fleets?

Within TOCs it might be, certainly not otherwise. There’s also nobody to my knowledge at EMR who currently signs 8XXs - they’re being tested by GBRF drivers.

 

[xotGD]

Let me get this straight.

LNER cancel their train and supply a replacement bus.

EMR have their own train to the same destination a few minutes later.

All well and good moaning about the 'duplication', but while LNER may have known how many passengers had at least reserved seats on the train, they can't be expected to know in advance how many walk up passengers there would be. Nor can it be guaranteed they'd be able to find out how many people were booked in advance on the EMR or how many walk ups there would be for that service, so providing a replacement bus as well as there being the EMR train to me seems like good customer service from LNER, going above and beyond to ensure people get where they are going with as little delay as possible.

Yes, provide a bus for the overspill. But don't force passengers onto a bus when there are seats available on a train.

 

[43066]

Yes, provide a bus for the overspill. But don't force passengers onto a bus when there are seats available on a train.

But they aren’t available to those with TOC specific tickets under current industry arrangements. That’s the point! The alternative for those people would be having to wait until the next LNER service, or potentially having to buy other tickets etc.

It is utterly bizarre that people are complaining about a bus being provided. Perhaps next time there won’t be and there will be a thread on here complaining about how outrageous it is. Frankly if people will complain either way what’s the point in making the effort!?

 

[xotGD]

That’s the point!

That's the problem!