Mcr Warrior
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Seems to be a bit like the National Rail website. What really should be a definitive go to source of information, quite often isn't.
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PlusBus dying off?
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redreni
Established Member
Yes, of course they should.
It's not my job to tell PlusBus which of First's routes to put on the excluded list, it's First's. And if they haven't done it then they should accept the ticket.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
At the risk of getting into a philosophical discussion, the only authority for the proposition that PlusBus tickets aren't accepted on route Y22 is the operator, ergo it is perfectly accurate to say the operator has made up the restriction. Nobody else made it up.
They are, of course, entitled to do that, but if they're participating in the PlusBus scheme then they must notify PlusBus of the exclusion, which they don't appear to have done. It's not my job to do it.
Lewisham2221
Established Member
The PlusBus website is dreadfully out of date. The Derby page, for example, lists exempt TrentBarton services that TB don't even operate anymore and haven't done for years. The Stoke page doesn’t list any exemptions, but football buses definitely don’t accept PlusBus.
Should whoever is responsible for administering the PlusBus scheme not periodically check for relevant exclusions? It's surely not difficult to send out an email to operators, asking for a list of their excluded services - even once a year would remove some of the glaring errors.
Perhaps it's just because I'm already aware of how amateurish the whole PlusBus scheme actually is, but I'd definitely be double checking validity via the bus operator before relying on it.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Of course, there's nothing to actually confirm either way whether First have notified PlusBus, or if PlusBus have confirmed that what they are advertising is correct.
Let's say I take out a subscription with TvCo, because they advertise that I can watch GenericSeries on ChannelXYZ. I then discover that ChannelXYZ does not show GenericSeries, nor does it claim to. My complaint should not be with ChannelXYZ or with the makers of GenericSeries, it should be with TvCo for falsely advertising erroneous information.
In this case, the bus company website makes it quite clear that PlusBus is not valid on service Y22. You've complained to the bus company, who have correctly confirmed that this is the case. Thus your complaint is now with PlusBus, who's advertising lead you to believe your ticket would be valid on Y22, when in fact it wasn't.
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redreni
Established Member
Yeah, you're right, of course. As you might be able to tell, I'm reluctant to give PlusBus a hard time.
The reasons for this are
(a) they give every indication of being dreadfully underfunded
(b) the proper resolution to such a complaint would probably be refunding the ticket since it was sold based on false information and
(c) they didn't actually sell me the ticket, South Western Railway did.
I kind of think it can't do any harm to remind bus companies not to forget about PlusBus, to make sure their drivers are aware of PlusBus and to be proactive about making sure information about their services on the PlusBus website is up-to-date (by which I don't mean firing off one email and then forgetting about it).
If, on the other hand, we all start giving PlusBus a hard time about inaccuracies on their website, with sales figures being what they are, it would be really easy for PlusBus to ask for a few thousand pounds funding to hire an agency bod to sort out the website and for somebody in authority (who may not previously have been aware that PlusBus existed) to decide the scheme is more trouble than it's worth, that next to nobody uses it and that it should be withdrawn. A political climate in which it's considered acceptable for TfL to withdraw from important parts of the Travelcard scheme, is not one where I'd want to be making too much of a fuss about the imperfections of a similar but under-used scheme that is valued (at least by me and others on this thread). The DfT and Treasury have shown, with the on-train wifi debacle, that there is no sum of money too small - however wisely spent - to escape their ridiculous penny-pinching drive.
Independent of what the bus company may or may not have told PlusBus / the Train Company, under the Consumer Rights Act the redress is with the retailer - i.e. whoever sold the ticket. In addition, the "service must conform to any information the trader provides about it, either in writing or verbally". Contractual arrangements further up the chain are not the consumers problem. If the retailer has sold you a ticket and the information is wrong, it is up to them to refund you, and ensure that information is corrected going forward.
There are other ways of going up the chain, the most known one is with credit card companies albeit PlusBus is below their legal responsibility.
There are other ways of going up the chain, the most known one is with credit card companies albeit PlusBus is below their legal responsibility.
markymark2000
On Moderation
My opinions on Plusbus are well known on this forum. In short, they are a shambles. Ran by Julie Williams of Traveline and she has no care for Traveline nor Plusbus, in her position not because of knowledge. She hides away from the public because she knows that she would be held accountable for the shambolic Traveline database and dismal Plusbus scheme.
Long version:
Long version:
Plusbus - knowledge of bus driver?
That is not the case, almost all of the railcard discounted PlusBus tickets I've bought have been bought separately from the rail ticket, and usually with a different discount on the rail ticket as Priv isn't available on PlusBus. Interesting and contrary to what LNWR told me. I will probe...
www.railforums.co.uk
Lewisham2221
Established Member
Indeed, the concept of PlusBus is fantastic. In reality, the whole scheme feels like it's operated part-time by some retired bloke who fires up an ancient PC once in a blue moon and got his (long since grown up) grandchild to create the website as part of a college IT project.
In my experience, bus companies really do try and make their drivers aware of the scheme and it's validity etc, but the reality is that PlusBus usage is so dreadfully low that it's very easy for a driver to go an absolute age without seeing one and therefore very easy to forget about
miklcct
Established Member
Did you pay for the Y22 then? If so you can claim for damage from the PlusBus promoter.
Perfect description of the whole operation. Haha.
One must realise that the bus companies are only lukewarm to PlusBus (at best). The scheme was foisted upon them about 20 years ago as a through bus-rail ticket product, with the bus companies alone taking the scalp on a reduced fare. The financial shareout to participating operators in a given area is on the basis of mileage operated rather than actual use. The bus companies fear (probably correctly) that the main use of PlusBus would be by passengers who would have bought bus tickets at their higher rate, and the revenue accruing to the single operator. The costs of the scheme are paid for by a commission on (PlusBus) sales - so not only is the bus operator taking the scalp on a cheaper ticket but also paying the scheme costs too. With ticket sales so low, the money available for administration / website updating is probably small.
The bus companies barely have the resource to keep their own data and website updated, without thinking about someone else's. The PlusBus website does not have functionality for bus company staff to amend their own information, so the process of change is long winded and easily forgotten about (assuming there is the knowledge and skill in the first place, which is a big assumption).
It is a scheme conceived and implemented on the cheap, and being run on the cheap, and has a lot of frayed edges.
The bus companies barely have the resource to keep their own data and website updated, without thinking about someone else's. The PlusBus website does not have functionality for bus company staff to amend their own information, so the process of change is long winded and easily forgotten about (assuming there is the knowledge and skill in the first place, which is a big assumption).
It is a scheme conceived and implemented on the cheap, and being run on the cheap, and has a lot of frayed edges.
markymark2000
On Moderation
To he honest, I use Plusbus as a way to encourage me onto buses. A plusbus (with my Railcard) is cheaper than a single on my local route (and I can get the bus from the train station to the bus station as well) and so I get a Plusbus with the idea that If I get the bus I save money, if i get a taxi, I've not lost much. As I walk out of the station And I have to make my decision, I tend to opt for bus as I've already paid for my ticket.
The best way of doing it is probably to say, Plusbus is accepted on all routes operated by the following companies, which take ENCTS passes and then have a national big combined list of routes which don't accept ENCTS or Plusbus. The list is pretty similar anyway right now.
The immediate problem being that there is no national big combined list of services that do not accept ENCTS passes. There is no funding to produce one, and certainly none to maintain one. It is unfortunately esoteric detail, which would be very difficult to keep up to date. To passengers, non acceptance of ENCTS pass means pay the fare. The problem with Plusbus is that the passenger has already paid the fare in anticipation of use.
I understand and am sympathetic to the issue, but am unsure of a practicable workable reliable solution. In the longer term the BODS (Bus Open Data Service) information needs to contain the validity details of PlusBus of each route, which I guess is not that much different, if any, to loading details of operator area wide tickets. Of course it may well be intended, but I don't think the detailed fare and validity information about these types of tickets is available yet.
redreni
Established Member
No, I waited for the next bus because I thought I had plenty of time (and in any event the bus was rather overcrowded). As it happened I very nearly regretted it - after a very long wait for a Park & Ride bus, I was eventually deposited outside York station 3 minutes before my booked train to London was due to depart.
I made the connection okay, but it was too close for comfort. It was very apparent why most people drive to York City matches. The bus service is very poor and the ticketing arrangements are frankly absurd (the football shuttle and the Park & Ride being operated by the same company and running largely the same route but nevertheless refusing to accept each other's return tickets, with a second company operating route 12). I would understand the football shuttle having separate ticketing if it was, by itself, an adequate service for the job, but that's not the case. The three routes combined don't even provide a decent service. I had thought PlusBus would be the answer to the lack of inter-available ticketing, but of course it wasn't. The Y22 is meant to be laid on specifically to collect people after the final whistle, the Park & Ride is meant to run every 15 minutes and the 12 was also due at around 5pm, so for one bus to turn up when there were maybe 200 people waiting at the stop and then for there to be no further buses for 25 minutes wasn't particularly impressive.
It seems essentially to be a vicious cycle where the buses get stuck in traffic, which presumably entices more people to drive which worsens the congestion, and so on.
A couple of people who took the train last season have said to me they'll probably drive to York next season given how difficult it is to reach York City's new ground if arriving by train.
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Are the season ticket prices correct do you know?
Yes, they are updated too, and I think were correct before, too.
PlusBus is a great idea and just has to be updated to make it a seamless transaction with actual bus time data provided too.
East Midland Railway now has a multi-modal journey planner "Plan your journey door to door" on its website. It's separate from the ticket buying journey planner but someone should have a punt at linking it to bus ticket sales. I've bought etickets for a local German bus on the DB website, so where there's a will there's a way
East Midland Railway now has a multi-modal journey planner "Plan your journey door to door" on its website. It's separate from the ticket buying journey planner but someone should have a punt at linking it to bus ticket sales. I've bought etickets for a local German bus on the DB website, so where there's a will there's a way
Bus and train companies seem determined that they won't be interchangeable.
West Yorkshire has a phone based tickets valid on buses and trains which display a barcode for scanning at inspections, passing through barriers and when boarding buses. It has a button to press to swap between the bus and train barcodes.
Presumably PlusBus just needs to be able to generate codes that mean something to bus ticket machines.
redreni
Established Member
Agree if done properly.
If done in a half-arsed way, all it'll do is present the passenger with the additional hurdle of trying to persuade an already sceptical bus driver their PlusBus ticket is valid even though the barcode reader has rejected it.
Mcr Warrior
Veteran Member
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Certainly annoying if you've paid extra £ for the thing, and the driver won't accept it on the bus that you're intending boarding.
markymark2000
On Moderation
There are ways around this. Working with Ticketer, have a Plusbus app and then passengers can choose a paper Plusbus or a redemption code for the Plusbus app. Go onto the Plusbus app and put in the redemption code and it gives you a QR Code there. Ticketer already do big QR codes as many multi operator schemes use their QR codes (including 1Bws which is valid on 20+ operators in North Wales) and so they would be more than willing to help surely. They are also the biggest ticket machine supplier in the UK and so there would be very, very few operators who couldn't be set up to accept Plusbus this way but even those, if you can get 95% QR code acceptance for Plusbus, that's good going.
If only ITSO smartcards had been fully developed and implimented UK wide ( theoretically ) there would be no issues at the point of use where the rail travel was first. Without having a home / place of purchase terminal that can load the ticket onto the ITSO card the problem would be where the bus journey comes first given unreasonable for every bus to be loaded with the data to link the ITSO card and the ticket for the first time.
I can't say I've had much grief with PlusBus tickets in the past five years or so. I think the one exception was using it on Supertram in Sheffield and the conductor played the 'it says bus' card which I managed to argue long enough that he gave up and went away.
About six years back I had a First Halifax driver kick off at me as she thought the ticket was too cheap so it couldn't possibly be valid
About six years back I had a First Halifax driver kick off at me as she thought the ticket was too cheap so it couldn't possibly be valid
ThameslinkUser
Member
If it weren't for the fare cap, which B&H are still advertising as ending this week, it would be significantly below the cost of two singles. Prior to the fare cap, I was paying £2.80 for each of my singles and there's been a fare rise since then.
A roving ticket inspector tried that line with me in Manchester. An official complaint resulted in the usual flannel.About six years back I had a First Halifax driver kick off at me as she thought the ticket was too cheap so it couldn't possibly be valid
Adam Williams
Established Member
I'm pretty sure Ticketer have done the work to read proper rail Aztec tickets; or at least that was my understanding of the situation. i.e. this is where the entire PlusBus E-Ticket spec has come from.
Otherwise I'm not sure what the point of the trial and work in this area was for?
317 forever
Established Member
When I was in Brighton I wanted to ride a 313 to Shoreham and plenty of local buses. I wasn't sure whether I'd use the train westbound or eastbound. I found buying an off-peak day return with Brighton bus plus the most cost-effective option.
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