Plus Bus 30% Fare Increase

[martinsh]

Just buying a Plus Bus for Crewe tomorrow - and found it has increased from £2.20 to £2.90 - and increase of over 30% !!

[While the Plus Bus for the other end of my journey remained the same price ]

Anyone got any other examples of whopping Plus Bus fare increases ?

 

[andrewkeith5]

Just buying a Plus Bus for Crewe tomorrow - and found it has increased from £2.20 to £2.90 - and increase of over 30% !!

[While the Plus Bus for the other end of my journey remained the same price ]

Anyone got any other examples of whopping Plus Bus fare increases ?

By any chance is Arriva the main provider? Wherever I've experienced Arriva Buses, pretty much all they're good at is increasing the price...

 

[northwichcat]

D&G Bus seem to be the main operator around Crewe. Their own day tickets have gone up by 7%.

Who's actually responsible for what towns do and don't get Plusbus and setting the fares?

 

[andrewkeith5]

D&G Bus seem to be the main operator around Crewe. Their own day tickets have gone up by 7%.

Who's actually responsible for what towns do and don't get Plusbus and setting the fares?

I believe it's the fare setting/local TOC who setup a commercial agreement with the various TOCs.

That would explain why places like West Sussex have very good value Plusbus as Go Ahead run both the bus and train companies.

 

[northwichcat]

I believe it's the fare setting/local TOC who setup a commercial agreement with the various TOCs.

That would explain why places like West Sussex have very good value Plusbus as Go Ahead run both the bus and train companies.

So I imagine it's Virgin who are behind the Plusbus setup in Cheshire: Crewe, Macclesfield, Chester and Warrington are included but AFAIK no other Cheshire stations.

 

[bb21]

PlusBus is managed by Journey Solutions. I don't think any bus company can be forced into taking part in the PlusBus scheme.

Stagecoach-dominated Exeter had its PlusBus go up from £1 to £2 at one stage I think - an increase of 100%.

 

[andrewkeith5]

Certainly bus companies cannot be forced into it - but it is often quite obvious when the TOC owner happens to be the local bus company Either through cheap prices or significantly better validity.

 

[northwichcat]

PlusBus is managed by Journey Solutions. I don't think any bus company can be forced into taking part in the PlusBus scheme.

I thought in a PTE area the operator is required to accept Plusbus as a condition of receiving a subsidy, in the same way they are required to accept multi-operator PTE tickets.

 

[edwin_m]

Surely most buses in PTE areas are operated commercially and don't require subsidy?

I would imagine, like other multi-operator tickets, the law* requires that all operators who want to can participate and the participating operators and council/PTE form a committee to thrash out the details. Thus the result depends very much on the attitude of the people that end up round the table.

*or stricly speaking the Competition Commission

 

[bicbasher]

Certainly bus companies cannot be forced into it - but it is often quite obvious when the TOC owner happens to be the local bus company Either through cheap prices or significantly better validity.

Indeed, I've found Plusbus to be excellent value for money on Brighton & Hove buses whose parent company also operates Southern.

 

[northwichcat]

Surely most buses in PTE areas are operated commercially and don't require subsidy?

I think you'll find there's probably more commercial routes outside PTE areas than within them.

In Manchester 3 routes operate solely on a subsidy and take no fares - the Metroshuttle routes and the 147 route is heavily subsided.

 

[edwin_m]

I think you'll find there's probably more commercial routes outside PTE areas than within them.

In Manchester 3 routes operate solely on a subsidy and take no fares - the Metroshuttle routes and the 147 route is heavily subsided.

There may be more commercial routes outside PTE areas, and there are subsidised routes within PTE areas, but the point I was making was that most routes within PTE areas will be commercial. This is to be expected in principal urban centres with large populations which are generally good territory for bus operators.

According to TfGM about 20% of the GM bus network is subsidised.

http://www.tfgm.com/Corporate/Media_Centre/Pages/facts_figures.aspx

Some of the commercial buses are covered by quality partnerships and oher agreements which may include an obligation to accept PlusBus. However the operator of a commercial service has the freedom not to enter into those agreements if they don't want to, and unless they have entered into an agreement it is entirely up to them what tickets they sell and accept.

In practice it appears that nearly all operators in the relevant aresa accept PlusBus, but as previously suggested the prices vary wildly depending on the attitude of the operators who set it.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Certainly bus companies cannot be forced into it - but it is often quite obvious when the TOC owner happens to be the local bus company Either through cheap prices or significantly better validity.

This may explain the wide coverage/good price for Leeds (First)

 

[northwichcat]

There may be more commercial routes outside PTE areas, and there are subsidised routes within PTE areas, but the point I was making was that most routes within PTE areas will be commercial. This is to be expected in principal urban centres with large populations which are generally good territory for bus operators.

According to TfGM about 20% of the GM bus network is subsidised.

http://www.tfgm.com/Corporate/Media_Centre/Pages/facts_figures.aspx

OK I thought it was higher given that most First and Stagecoach routes in Manchester were formerly operated by divisions of Greater Manchester Buses.

One thing to note though is a commercial route which gets a high number of pensioners travelling on it can get more council money than what's a subsided route. Cheshire West council said this was the case with the Aintree Coachline service between Chester station and Chester city centre.

 

[edwin_m]

One thing to note though is a commercial route which gets a high number of pensioners travelling on it can get more council money than what's a subsided route. Cheshire West council said this was the case with the Aintree Coachline service between Chester station and Chester city centre.

Yes there are a number of ways in which a bus service described as "commercial" isn't quite what most people would understand by that word. And I think there'd be quite a few off-peak buses where the twirlies outnumber the farepayers. Getting back on topic, despite its inconsistencies and often poor publicity I think PlusBus is to be welcomed as one of the few integrated transport initiatives outside London.

 

[gordonthemoron]

plusbus can be very useful, especially in west yorkshire, Greater manchester (excepting metrolink) and Birmingham

 

[martinsh]

Going back to my original comment - have since discovered that D & G bus fares have increased by 20% (no change yet on Arriva).

 

[northwichcat]

Going back to my original comment - have since discovered that D & G bus fares have increased by 20% (no change yet on Arriva).

I've noticed the D&G bus site now says return tickets are now available on the 300 service and also gives a weekly ticket price for a ticket only valid on the 300 route. A leaflet published on 2nd December 2013 for that route said no return fares are available.

 

[All Line Rover]

Going back to my original comment - have since discovered that D & G bus fares have increased by 20% (no change yet on Arriva).

In addition, whilst D&G used to offer a very generous 30% discount for customers holding the 'Cheshire Travelcard', this has now been lowered to 'up to 20%'. This still remains the most generous of all bus operators in the Cheshire area, but is disappointing when combined with their recent price hikes.

I don't believe bus fares get enough publicity. The most vulnerable members of society tend to rely on buses more so than trains, yet despite all the regulation and media attention given to train fares increases, little seems to be done to keep bus fares in check. I suppose buses aren't exciting enough, the routes can be too obscure due to their relatively short distance nature, and those who use them don't tend to be the sort of people in a position to form pressure groups.

 

[trainophile]

What annoys me about bus fares these days is that it always seems to be a flat rate, whether you're going the entire A-B route of a service, or just a couple of stops. I suppose this is the only way modern day technology can cope, but it is a backward step for those who just want to use the bus over a short distance.

 

[northwichcat]

What annoys me about bus fares these days is that it always seems to be a flat rate, whether you're going the entire A-B route of a service, or just a couple of stops. I suppose this is the only way modern day technology can cope, but it is a backward step for those who just want to use the bus over a short distance.

I wasn't going to post this as I thought it was going off-topic but one route D&G Bus charge a flat fare on is the 300 Knutsford circular route, this has just gone up from £1.50 single to £1.80 single but additionally they have also introduced a new £3 return ticket and a new £10 weekly ticket.

When the 300 route was operated by Star Line Travel the route was split in to 'phases' and the ticket showed something like phase 2 Shaw Drive/Boothfields to phase 4 Bus Station/Canute Place When Star Line Travel were taken over by North Western (now Arriva North West) non-local drivers started appearing who had difficulty selling the right tickets, which could be one reason why Arriva went to the flat fare system - too many different buses and drivers being used on the same route. For anyone interested Simon Fawcett was managing director of Star Line Travel - the person who currently runs bus leasing company Mistral.

With the 300 route it's a bit isolated from the other D&G Bus routes and the furthest you can travel on it (without doing a circle) is 2 miles so the introduction of something other than the single and the standard network wide day and weekly tickets is welcome. However, a lot of people do walk in to town and then get the bus back (with shopping) so those people will see big increases to how much they pay.

 

[martinsh]

I a lot of people do walk in to town and then get the bus back (with shopping) so those people will see big increases to how much they pay.

Not if they now decide to walk back as well - that's what I'll be doing !

 

[starrymarkb]

PlusBus is managed by Journey Solutions. I don't think any bus company can be forced into taking part in the PlusBus scheme.

Stagecoach-dominated Exeter had its PlusBus go up from £1 to £2 at one stage I think - an increase of 100%.

IIRC that also coincided with a pretty chunky extension of the zone a few miles into East Devon (it now includes the Airport, Broadclyst and Crealy Adventure park)

 

[bb21]

IIRC that also coincided with a pretty chunky extension of the zone a few miles into East Devon (it now includes the Airport, Broadclyst and Crealy Adventure park)

Ah I was not aware of the extension.

 

[CyrusWuff]

It's worth noting that the TOCs are not (directly) involved in PlusBus implementation. The scheme is managed by Journey Solutions, a partnership of the big "names" in the bus industry; ATOC; the Association of Local Bus Managers (ALBUM) and the Confederation of Passenger Transport.

To set up a new PlusBus scheme, one of the operators in the given area takes lead responsibility and then gets in touch with any other operators asking them if they want to participate, forming a local scheme management committee. It's up to them to decide on pricing, whether to offer season tickets, zonal boundaries, revenue allocation, etc.

They then enter into a contract with Journey Solutions, who validate the scheme and get it added to the fares database and the PlusBus site, and include it in the next "newsletter" to TOCs. (Updates used to be published in Newsrail Express when that was a paper-based publication).

Once the scheme is confirmed, there's a standard form of Notice to Drivers which is supposed to be displayed at the relevant garages...Unfortunately that doesn't always prevent "That's a train ticket." type arguments, even though the tickets clearly say "PLUSBUS" on them, even in PTE areas. In the event of such problems, it's requested to contact Journey Solutions so that they can investigate.

 

[northwichcat]

In addition, whilst D&G used to offer a very generous 30% discount for customers holding the 'Cheshire Travelcard', this has now been lowered to 'up to 20%'.

Now only 15%

Travelcard is the easy way to pay for your bus journey. Simply top up your card on the bus and use it to buy your ticket - you get a 15% discount on most* D&G Bus tickets when you pay by Travelcard.

* Discounts are not available on Stoke SMART tickets, Your Staffordshire tickets, one1ink day, week or month tickets or Cheshire East concessionary half-fare tickets.

http://www.dgbus.co.uk/travelcard.html

 

[infobleep]

There are times when bus tickets are cheaper to buy from the bus company than plusbus.

In Oxford, saver bus tickets last 24 hours. So if using buses over two days, it is cheaper to buy a ticket once you reach Oxford than plusbus, as plusbus only works for the date marked on the ticket and you'd have to buy another ticket for the next day.

Outsiders to Oxford might not expect a bus ticket to last 24 hours so could be caught out. The bus ticketing conditions are very good in Oxford.

 

[transmanche]

The bus ticketing conditions are very good in Oxford.

I've heard it said that Oxford is pretty much the only place where bus deregulation has actually worked.

 

[All Line Rover]

I've heard it said that Oxford is pretty much the only place where bus deregulation has actually worked.

It only 'worked' because of unabated pressure from the council. For many years (until very recently) bus services in Oxford were a hotchpotch of different fares and policies and the inability to travel on different operators was viewed dimly by the public.

 

[transmanche]

It only 'worked' because of unabated pressure from the council. For many years (until very recently) bus services in Oxford were a hotchpotch of different fares and policies and the inability to travel on different operators was viewed dimly by the public.

Interesting.

Did the council actively co-ordinate/facilitate (e.g. setting up partnerships etc), or rely on 'moral persuasion'.

(It's been an active topic up in Tyne & Wear recently, with the bus companies actively resisting giving Nexus more influence; e.g. Stagecoach advertising their argument on all their buses and threatening to pull out altogether.)