Please help!

[happylizard123]

I went to Four Oaks Station with cash to buy a return ticket to Lichfield City (which is only £4.05 with my railcard) but there wasn't anyone at the ticket office at Four Oaks Station so I got on the train. I couldn't book my ticket on the train as the train wifi was really bad and just wouldn't work so I planned on booking it at Lichfield City with wifi. A ticket officer checked just before Lichfield City and gave me a £100 fine but I now have my ticket (booked, once connected to wifi)

 

[Elecman]

Sadly, as you eventually bought online, then the £100 penalty ( £50 if paid within 21 days ) is correct.

If you hadn’t bought a ticket at the time the inspector reached you and told him you wanted to pay by cash and that the ticket office at Four Oaks was closed, and there wasn’t a ticket machine that took cash payments, then you were perfectly entitled to pay at your destination and shouldn't be penalised.

You should appeal the Penalty Fare ( it’s not a fine) stating that there was no option for you to purchase your ticket by cash at the origin station.

 

[z444z]

If there was a working ticket machine at Four Oaks that accepted cash then you committed an offence by boarding the train without a valid ticket.

This “£100 fine” is likely a penalty fare notice, which might feel like a fine but technically isn’t one. If you pay it promptly it’s reduced to £50 plus the fare, but you have the right to appeal it.

Please upload image(s) of the entire penalty fare notice - make sure to redact personal details and the reference number - so we can check if there are any grounds of appeal worth pursuing.

 

[AlterEgo]

Please upload a copy of the penalty fare notice with your details removed so we can see the particulars.

Why didn't you use the ticket machine at Four Oaks?

If there was a working ticket machine at Four Oaks that accepted cash then you committed an offence by boarding the train without a valid ticket.

New NRCoT say that you can only pay by cash if it's your "only available payment method", so passengers merely preferring to pay by cash must pay by card if that is available to them.

 

[MotCO]

Please upload a copy of the penalty fare notice with your details removed so we can see the particulars.

Why didn't you use the ticket machine at Four Oaks?


New NRCoT say that you can only pay by cash if it's your "only available payment method", so passengers merely preferring to pay by cash must pay by card if that is available to them.

Presumably, the OP buying a ticket on their phone implies that they must have access to a credit or debit card. Presumably, the only defence there is if the card is only a physical card which had been left at home, rather than the card was loaded on to their phone.

 

[happylizard123]

Thank you so much everyone. I will appeal the penalty fare now.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Dec 2025 ==

Presumably, the OP buying a ticket on their phone implies that they must have access to a credit or debit card. Presumably, the only defence there is if the card is only a physical card which had been left at home, rather than the card was loaded on to their phone.

I used my iPad which has my card details saved. It doesn't have Apple Pay and I didn't have a card on me.

 

[z444z]

Thank you so much everyone. I will appeal the penalty fare now.

This isn’t what we are suggesting you do straight away - please can you upload images of the penalty fare notice so we can advise property?

 

[happylizard123]

please see attached

 

[Snow1964]

I used my iPad which has my card details saved. It doesn't have Apple Pay and I didn't have a card on me.

Ok, can you confirm if this is correct

Went to pay cash at start station, but ticket office closed

No ticket machine, or is one but didn't accept cash

Didn't have any bank cards with you, and phone doesn't have bank cards saved

Managed to buy (eventually) using an iPad (is it wifi only, rather than cellular), in which case could only be used as alternative where good wifi signal exists.

Does Four Oaks have wifi ?
If not there is no way could purchase a ticket except on the train (which is what you did).

I would argue that once reason didn't buy from guard, is didn't bother to come along (even though ticket office was closed) to sell a ticket before inspector came. Others will advise if this is fair reason to appeal.

 

[Starmill]

I think you need to establish as a matter of fact if the ticket machine at the station you boarded at accepts cash or doesn't. My suggestion would be to physically go back there shortly and obtain some photos if you can. There's very, very little point in you or anyone else here just guessing at this...

Even if it doesn't, that's not necessarily going to help you now. The correct course of action was to offer the cash as payment when the inspector arrived, or to do so at Lichfield City.

 

[MotCO]

I used my iPad which has my card details saved. It doesn't have Apple Pay and I didn't have a card on meme.

That's good. You should probably include this when you respond, but please share the letter you have received so we can advise and comment on your draft response to hopefully get the best result for you.

 

[z444z]

That's good. You should probably include this when you respond, but please share the letter you have received so we can advise and comment on your draft response to hopefully get the best result for you.

My understanding is that a penalty fare was issued (a photo of which has been attached and to me it does look technically correct), not a letter.

 

[MotCO]

My understanding is that a penalty fare was issued (a photo of which has been attached and to me it does look technically correct), not a letter.

Ok thanks

 

[Snow1964]

My understanding is that a penalty fare was issued (a photo of which has been attached and to me it does look technically correct), not a letter.

Yes and the reason given is no ticket

So if the ticket Inspector was first opportunity to buy a ticket using cash, as Op only had cash and no bank cards, then appears on face of it, there shouldn't have been issued a penalty for no ticket purchased because had been no earlier facility to buy.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

No ticket machine, or is one but didn't accept cash

This pic from Wikimedia, ostensibly taken in March 2024, appears to show a card only TVM on the island platform 2/3 at Four Oaks.

File:Four Oaks Platform and Ticket machine.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

A journey from Four Oaks to/from Lichfield City is likely to use platform 1, however. What's over on that side of the station?

 

[AlterEgo]

I think you need to establish as a matter of fact if the ticket machine at the station you boarded at accepts cash or doesn't. My suggestion would be to physically go back there shortly and obtain some photos if you can. There's very, very little point in you or anyone else here just guessing at this...

Even if it doesn't, that's not necessarily going to help you now. The correct course of action was to offer the cash as payment when the inspector arrived, or to do so at Lichfield City.

Yes, it would be helpful to know what the OP said to the inspector. Did you offer to pay by cash? What did the inspector say when you explained you wanted to pay in cash?

 

[Starmill]

This pic from Wikimedia, ostensibly taken in March 2024, appears to show a card only TVM on the island platform 2/3 at Four Oaks.

File:Four Oaks Platform and Ticket machine.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

A journey from Four Oaks to/from Lichfield City is likely to use platform 1, however. What's over on that side of the station?

That's definitely useful but I still think a first hand account would be needed. It is common that cash can't be accepted at the stations on this line, and common for people to offer it in onboard or in Birmingham because they haven't been able to use the facilities. I would expect it's just accepted the majority of the time when this happens. But we need to know with confidence if that is relevant here.

 

[happylizard123]

I am writing to formally appeal for a refund following an issue encountered during my recent journey.



On DATE, while my 16–25 Railcard was valid, I purchased a return ticket from Four Oaks to London Euston at a cost of PRICE. At the time of purchase, all details were correct and my Railcard entitlement was valid.



My Railcard expired on DATE. However, I was not made aware of its expiry, as I did not receive any reminder notifications or correspondence prior to this date.



On DATE, I travelled from Four Oaks to London Euston, genuinely unaware that my Railcard had expired.



Upon arrival at London Euston Station, I explained the situation to the ticket inspector. I was advised that if I renewed my Railcard immediately, I would be able to submit an appeal, as I had originally purchased the ticket in good faith while holding a valid Railcard.


I would like to emphasise that this was an honest mistake. I had no intention of travelling without a valid Railcard, and I had already paid for my ticket under the correct conditions at the time of purchase. I have since renewed my Railcard promptly in line with the advice given.


I would be very grateful for your understanding and consideration in this matter. Please let me know if any further information is required to support my appeal.

 

[simonw]

I am writing to formally appeal for a refund following an issue encountered during my recent journey.



On DATE, while my 16–25 Railcard was valid, I purchased a return ticket from Four Oaks to London Euston at a cost of PRICE. At the time of purchase, all details were correct and my Railcard entitlement was valid.



My Railcard expired on DATE. However, I was not made aware of its expiry, as I did not receive any reminder notifications or correspondence prior to this date.



On DATE, I travelled from Four Oaks to London Euston, genuinely unaware that my Railcard had expired.



Upon arrival at London Euston Station, I explained the situation to the ticket inspector. I was advised that if I renewed my Railcard immediately, I would be able to submit an appeal, as I had originally purchased the ticket in good faith while holding a valid Railcard.


I would like to emphasise that this was an honest mistake. I had no intention of travelling without a valid Railcard, and I had already paid for my ticket under the correct conditions at the time of purchase. I have since renewed my Railcard promptly in line with the advice given.


I would be very grateful for your understanding and consideration in this matter. Please let me know if any further information is required to support my appeal.

I assume this is a different case from the one at the start of the thread?

 

[WesternLancer]

I am writing to formally appeal for a refund following an issue encountered during my recent journey.



On DATE, while my 16–25 Railcard was valid, I purchased a return ticket from Four Oaks to London Euston at a cost of PRICE. At the time of purchase, all details were correct and my Railcard entitlement was valid.



My Railcard expired on DATE. However, I was not made aware of its expiry, as I did not receive any reminder notifications or correspondence prior to this date.



On DATE, I travelled from Four Oaks to London Euston, genuinely unaware that my Railcard had expired.



Upon arrival at London Euston Station, I explained the situation to the ticket inspector. I was advised that if I renewed my Railcard immediately, I would be able to submit an appeal, as I had originally purchased the ticket in good faith while holding a valid Railcard.


I would like to emphasise that this was an honest mistake. I had no intention of travelling without a valid Railcard, and I had already paid for my ticket under the correct conditions at the time of purchase. I have since renewed my Railcard promptly in line with the advice given.


I would be very grateful for your understanding and consideration in this matter. Please let me know if any further information is required to support my appeal.

We need to know what the railway are doing to you about this. What is it you want to Appeal?

Have you been given a Penalty Fare?
Or have you been reported for travel without a valid ticket?

These things have totally different consequences for you so it’s important to know exactly what has happened.

Were you given any paperwork? If so please up load a copy of it.

Have you been sent any letters or e mails since you were stopped for this? If so please share them here.

Remove your personal details and any ref numbers if you have things to upload.

 

[z444z]

We need to know everything that has happened since you last posted in early December.

 

[WesternLancer]

Occurs to me that post #18 looks like a draft of a letter or submission the OP wishes to send in relation to a ticketing incident.

But as mentioned it would help to know how the incident was being handled.

IF this is Penalty Fare appeal I doubt it will be successful on the point made as it is the passenger’s responsibility to ensure their railcard is in date and valid. Failure of whoever sold you your railcard to remind you when it expired isn’t going to be grounds to overturn a Penalty Fare I fear.

 

[bb21]

I am writing to formally appeal for a refund following an issue encountered during my recent journey.



On DATE, while my 16–25 Railcard was valid, I purchased a return ticket from Four Oaks to London Euston at a cost of PRICE. At the time of purchase, all details were correct and my Railcard entitlement was valid.



My Railcard expired on DATE. However, I was not made aware of its expiry, as I did not receive any reminder notifications or correspondence prior to this date.



On DATE, I travelled from Four Oaks to London Euston, genuinely unaware that my Railcard had expired.



Upon arrival at London Euston Station, I explained the situation to the ticket inspector. I was advised that if I renewed my Railcard immediately, I would be able to submit an appeal, as I had originally purchased the ticket in good faith while holding a valid Railcard.


I would like to emphasise that this was an honest mistake. I had no intention of travelling without a valid Railcard, and I had already paid for my ticket under the correct conditions at the time of purchase. I have since renewed my Railcard promptly in line with the advice given.


I would be very grateful for your understanding and consideration in this matter. Please let me know if any further information is required to support my appeal.

How do you expect people to help you when this bears no relationship to what you posted originally?

 

[Kite159]

..

How do you expect people to help you when this bears no relationship to what you posted originally?

I'm pretty sure they posted Post 18 in a separate thread within the Fares area, which seems to have been merged with their existing thread when it was moved.

 

[WesternLancer]

How do you expect people to help you when this bears no relationship to what you posted originally?

New problem. Came back for advice on it as happy customer from first time round.