Please help up

[helloooo]

I will try to make this short and will provide more details if needed. My 18 year old friend bought a child ticket and got caught. The ticket collector asked if she was under 18 and my friend lied and said she was 17. The collector (I don't know the correct name, sorry) took the child ticket, wrote 'Void' on it and then gave the ticket back to my friend. The collector then asked my friend to pay for the adult ticket but she had no money.The collector saw that she had paid for the child ticket on her card and so told her to put her card into the reader. It got declined but the collector knew this. She then took my friends details. My friend had to give a fake date of birth in order to keep to her lie of being 17. The ticket collector also spelt her name wrong but my friend didn't correct her because she was so nervous. She did however give the correct address. She told me that the collector made her sign something but she don't know what it was that she signed. The collector then told my friend that she should put the money for the fare onto her card by Wednesday and it will be taken out. My friend immediately had money transferred into her bank and so she approached the ticket collector and said that she now had money on her card. The collector replied that it's OK and that the money will be taken out.

My friend is now terrified that the money will not be taken from her debit card (how does that even work?). She was never given a bill thing with payment information either. Will this money come out? What will happen if the money doesn't come out. This is her first offense of any kind and I don't know what is going to happen to her. She has such big plans for her future and this would be ruined if she ended up with a criminal record.

 

[NSEFAN]

What was the journey? National Rail child fares are only applicable to people under 16.

 

[mikeg]

If is a strong possibility that your friend has been reported for prosecution. I don't know how the money would come out of her account at a later date either,. What if any paperwork was she given? By the way, lying about her age will only make things worse, especially given that the maximum age for a child ticket is fifteen, not seventeen!

 

[helloooo]

It was with London Midland. There was no paperwork. The collector just took the details and she had to sign her name on a piece of paper that she was stupid enough not to read.

 

[najaB]

If is a strong possibility that your friend has been reported for prosecution. I don't know how the money would come out of her account at a later date either,. What if any paperwork was she given? By the way, lying about her age will only make things worse, especially given that the maximum age for a child ticket is fifteen, not seventeen!

I don't know if it will actually make matters worse since it wouldn't matter if she was 17 or 18, the child ticket wasn't valid either way.

 

[NSEFAN]

I don't know if it will actually make matters worse since it wouldn't matter if she was 17 or 18, the child ticket wasn't valid either way.

Could be that the guard thought that the passenger was trying it on, and tried to get them to show that they were, in fact, lying about their age?

In any case, the best advice at this stage would be not to worry too much until when/if communication is received from the train company. If an out of court settlement is required this may cost several hundred pounds, so the OP's friend would be wise to save up now should this happen.

 

[helloooo]

Could be that the guard thought that the passenger was trying it on, and tried to get them to show that they were, in fact, lying about their age?

In any case, the best advice at this stage would be not to worry too much until when/if communication is received from the train company. If an out of court settlement is required this may cost several hundred pounds, so the OP's friend would be wise to save up now should this happen.

I don't think lying about age was suspected as my friend was with her friend who did the same thing. The only difference is that her friend had enough money to pay the penalty fare. If my friend had had money then this wouldn't have been an issue.

What is most likely going to happen?
Is this going to ruin her life?
What will the letter say when it comes through?
Will there definitely be letter?

 

[blakey1152]

What is definately a concern and I guess the TOC concerned will also be interested to know is if she is 18 now and buying child tickets, how many child tickets has she bought in the past without being entitled to buy them but has been lucky enough not to have got caught.

I imagine that they would suspect this isn't the first time because of her age.
Obviously would have been different if she had recently turned 16.

Hopefully it can all be settled out of court so no harm will be done (except in the pocket!) and it will be a life lesson well learnt.

Good luck!

 

[najaB]

What is most likely going to happen?

The TOC will need to decide which of three courses of action they will take:

• No further action
• Agree to settle without going to court
• Proceed with a prosecution - most likely under the Regulation of Railways Act

Is this going to ruin her life?

No. Even if she is found guilty of a RoRA offence it will only be on her record for one year.

What will the letter say when it comes through?

It will probably ask for her side of the events.

Will there definitely be letter?

Almost certainly.

 

[helloooo]

What is definately a concern and I guess the TOC concerned will also be interested to know is if she is 18 now and buying child tickets, how many child tickets has she bought in the past without being entitled to buy them but has been lucky enough not to have got caught.

I imagine that they would suspect this isn't the first time because of her age.
Obviously would have been different if she had recently turned 16.

Hopefully it can all be settled out of court so no harm will be done (except in the pocket!) and it will be a life lesson well learnt.

Good luck!

Thank you. My friend hardly travels by train so I cannot say if she has done this before. What are the chances of this being settled outside of court?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The TOC will need to decide which of three courses of action they will take:

• No further action
• Agree to settle without going to court
• Proceed with a prosecution - most likely under the Regulation of Railways Act

No. Even if she is found guilty of a RoRA offence it will only be on her record for one year.
It will probably ask for her side of the events.
Almost certainly.

Do you think the money will come out of my friends bank like the collector said? Or was she just lying to my friend?

 

[najaB]

Do you think the money will come out of my friends bank like the collector said? Or was she just lying to my friend?

It depends on how the TOC deal with failed transactions, but I would be surprised if it did.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

It seems unlikely that they could take that money out - they would have to have recorded the card details along with the security number and put it through as a 'cardholder not present' transaction.

 

[helloooo]

It seems unlikely that they could take that money out - they would have to have recorded the card details along with the security number and put it through as a 'cardholder not present' transaction.

My friend said that the collector told her to put her card in the reader and told her that it will tell her that it has been declined but to do it anyway. Could this have took her details?

My friend wants to be a lawyer and one day live and work in the state. Both of which require spent convictions to be listed. This means that she may never achieve her goals because of a stupid one time mistake. What are the chances that they will prosecute over settling out of court and vise versa?

 

[Aeion]

Did she then get issued with a ticket after the card was declined? I only ask because of the advice the fare will be taken of the card which is standard for our card machines. Secondly was she approached by the guard or a revenue protection manager? If it was a guard then the paper will be an unpaid fare notice we don't report people for prosecution. If it was a revenue protection manager then they would have gone through the paper work thoroughly and explained everything as they have a legal obligation to.

 

[helloooo]

Did she then get issued with a ticket after the card was declined? I only ask because of the advice the fare will be taken of the card which is standard for our card machines. Secondly was she approached by the guard or a revenue protection manager? If it was a guard then the paper will be an unpaid fare notice we don't report people for prosecution. If it was a revenue protection manager then they would have gone through the paper work thoroughly and explained everything as they have a legal obligation to.

It was just the person who goes down the carriages and checks the tickets, sells tickets etc. (I'm guessing that is the Revenue Protection Manager?). She was not issued with a ticket afterwards. Will the fare still be taken from her card? It has not yet come out but she is hoping that because the collector said to put the money in before Wednesday that the money will come out on Wednesday/Thursday. She was not given an unpaid fare notice, just told that the money will come out of her bank which I think is weird. She said nothing was explained but that all she did was give the details and then signed a little slip of paper which she didn't read as she felt pressured to sign the paper. The collector then took the slip of paper with her and left my friend with her void child ticket. I'm confused as to what will happen next.

 

[bb21]

Could be that the guard thought that the passenger was trying it on, and tried to get them to show that they were, in fact, lying about their age?

It's a common strategy.

Ask if the passenger is 18, the passenger replies 17, then "got ya".

Lying or not, the ticket is not valid since adult fares apply from 16, but many opportunist fare evaders would probably not know/remember this and it is shown time and again to be an effective line of questioning.

 

[Aeion]

It was just the person who goes down the carriages and checks the tickets, sells tickets etc. (I'm guessing that is the Revenue Protection Manager?). She was not issued with a ticket afterwards. Will the fare still be taken from her card? It has not yet come out but she is hoping that because the collector said to put the money in before Wednesday that the money will come out on Wednesday/Thursday. She was not given an unpaid fare notice, just told that the money will come out of her bank which I think is weird. She said nothing was explained but that all she did was give the details and then signed a little slip of paper which she didn't read as she felt pressured to sign the paper. The collector then took the slip of paper with her and left my friend with her void child ticket. I'm confused as to what will happen next.

The little slip of paper issued is a debit card reciept that we get passengers to sign when their card declines, we manually swipe it and the passenger signing it is authorisation to take the money from the account. But to do that a ticket has to be issued. It was the guard that did that not a RMP so in no way will your friend be fined/issued with any sort or penalty what so ever.

 

[najaB]

The little slip of paper issued is a debit card reciept that we get passengers to sign when their card declines, we manually swipe it and the passenger signing it is authorisation to take the money from the account. But to do that a ticket has to be issued.

I'm curious as to why no ticket seems to have been issued in this case. If that is the procedure at your TOC then I'm glad to know that no further action will be taken.

 

[helloooo]

I'm curious as to why no ticket seems to have been issued in this case. If that is the procedure at your TOC then I'm glad to know that no further action will be taken.

My friend looked through her bin and found an adult ticket. She must have thrown it away without looking. This ticket has a penalty fare warning on the back. My friends friend got given an adult ticket but she said that the collector circled hers green but my friends did not get circled. Is this because she didn't pay up front like her friend did?

Will the money come out of her bank later on this week? Was it supposed to come out as soon as she put money into her bank? Does this mean she has avoided prosecution? Will a letter still be sent to her or is this the end of it?

Thank you to everyone who has taken their time to answer the questions, it means a lot to us. Sorry for asking so many.

 

[221129]

The little slip of paper issued is a debit card reciept that we get passengers to sign when their card declines, we manually swipe it and the passenger signing it is authorisation to take the money from the account. But to do that a ticket has to be issued. It was the guard that did that not a RMP so in no way will your friend be fined/issued with any sort or penalty what so ever.

Sounds to me like it could still have been an RPI asking her to sign an MG11.

 

[Aeion]

Sounds to me like it could still have been an RPI asking her to sign an MG11.

That's very true however an mg11 is not a tiny piece of paper but a very long form which I would imagine would of been explained, secondly RPM have to work in two's if issuing a penalty fare or MG11 as two members of staff haven't been mentioned I again don't think it would be them. Of course without further more specific details we can't be certain.

 

[jon0844]

I don't know if it will actually make matters worse since it wouldn't matter if she was 17 or 18, the child ticket wasn't valid either way.

I think the RPI was really clever here. The question was valid, but also a trick question. The 18 bit prompted a lie of 17, which was in itself a confession! Good call on the part of the inspector!

Reminds me of my youth. Went to Nottingham and asked by bouncer of a night club my age. I said 18 (I was) but he said it was over 21 that night. Given I'd not lied, he asked me again so I said '21?' and in I went.

 

[221129]

That's very true however an mg11 is not a tiny piece of paper but a very long form which I would imagine would of been explained, secondly RPM have to work in two's if issuing a penalty fare or MG11 as two members of staff haven't been mentioned I again don't think it would be them. Of course without further more specific details we can't be certain.

RPI's do not have to work in pairs.. I frequently only see one on their own.

 

[323235]

The TOC will need to decide which of three courses of action they will take:

• No further action
• Agree to settle without going to court
• Proceed with a prosecution - most likely under the Regulation of Railways Act

No. Even if she is found guilty of a RoRA offence it will only be on her record for one year.
It will probably ask for her side of the events.
Almost certainly.

I've not heard that one on this forum before that it is only on someone's record for 12 months?

 

[najaB]

I've not heard that one on this forum before that it is only on someone's record for 12 months?

Apparently so. It was a relatively recent change as it used to be (IIRC) five years.

Edit: To be pedantic, it will always be on your record but it won't be disclosed after 12 months except in certain very specific circumstances.

 

[helloooo]

The little slip of paper issued is a debit card reciept that we get passengers to sign when their card declines, we manually swipe it and the passenger signing it is authorisation to take the money from the account. But to do that a ticket has to be issued. It was the guard that did that not a RMP so in no way will your friend be fined/issued with any sort or penalty what so ever.

You seem to have a fair bit of knowledge of this situation so I will direct this to you if that's OK?

My friend looked through her bin and found an adult ticket. She must have thrown it away without looking. This ticket has a penalty fare warning on the back. My friends friend got given an adult ticket but she said that the collector circled hers green but my friends did not get circled. Is this because she didn't pay up front like her friend did?

Will the money come out of her bank later on this week? Was it supposed to come out as soon as she put money into her bank? Does this mean she has avoided prosecution? Will a letter still be sent to her or is this the end of it?

 

[clagmonster]

Couple of questions.
On the bottom right hand corner, the date and time of issue should be printed in small print. Does this match with the time of the encounter?

Immediately after the fare there should be a single letter. What is it?

 

[helloooo]

Couple of questions.
On the bottom right hand corner, the date and time of issue should be printed in small print. Does this match with the time of the encounter?

Immediately after the fare there should be a single letter. What is it?

an X I believe. Is this bad?

Also yes it does match the time of the encounter.

 

[bb21]

"X" after the price just means that the fare was paid by card.

 

[helloooo]

"X" after the price just means that the fare was paid by card.

Right, thank you.

Overall, would it be safe to say that my friend can relax as the money will probably come out of her bank later this week as she was told it would be and was given a ticket with the 'X' on it?