Please help...notice of prosecution...completely ignorant!

[Terrified]

Hi all.

You guys have probably seen every type of story/ excuse ever but Ive made a big mistake and now am terrified that i am in huge trouble.

Im writing my statement after receiving an intention to prosecute but I dont know what or how much to say.

I have only two points that are any sort of defense:

1) I took a friends annual railcard because i genuinely didnt know I couldnt use it. I have only ever not bought daily tickets on one occasion when i was travelling several times in a week several months ago. I had a photocard made and bought a weekly ticket. I still have this ticket. My photocard number was not written on the ticket and I was never told the ticket could only be used with one photocard. Infact during this week my ticket was checked twice and it was seperate from my photocard and I was never asked for it. Since then I havent travelled by train. The only reason I mention this is as I still have the ticket is there any case to prove that I genuinely didnt know that the photocard was linked to a specific ticket. I know this is a long shot and now I am well aware how stupid it sounds but before you are told it isnt as obvious as you'd think. I wrongly assumed the photocard worked like a young persons card, that you just had to have one on you (god knows why this made sense to me at the time) Is it wise/ of any use to mention this in my statement of events?

2) When the ticket inspector stopped me I didnt have any idea I had done anything wrong. The ticket was completely worn away on the front so he couldnt read that it was valid (my friend uses it in a machine everyday so the print was completely faded off). He took me off the train to make sure it was valid, I knew it was so wasnt worried at all. Then he was saying that it could be a fake ticket etc and it should never be allowed to become so faded and that is also an offence. At this time I began to panic, I told him that it went through the ticket machine everyday and when he asked I said it was mine. I was worried that if I didnt then my friend whose ticket it was would be in trouble. It was after this I realised about the photocard thing and had to tell him it wasnt my ticket.

After this he took my details, cautioned me and now I am where I am. Im really looking for some advice about the letter and whether any of the points ive made make any kind of difference to how the prosecution department will treat the case.

Also I am a healthcare professional...I have to declared any conviction and after speaking to my regulating body this could really have a serious effect on my career. to top it of 2 months ago a passed a huge exam for emigration to Australia...which will be hugely affected by a conviction.

Im terrified that all of this could go down the drain for me due to some downright stupidly (I admit it) Please help

Thanks

 

[Clip]

What does your letter say you are being prosecuted under? This will help those who care to assist you in giving you the best advice.

 

[Terrified]

it doesn't say a law or bye-law. It just says to give my version of events

 

[BestWestern]

I'd think you need to take professional legal advice here, this sounds as though it may have the potential to turn into a possible fraud offence. Very bad news. Go and see a solicitor.

 

[Terrified]

really? fraud? i cannot sleep and have been so stressed about this.
Why could it be considered fraud? because the ticket was worn?

 

[furlong]

And which company has sent you this letter (or whereabouts did this happen)?

Was the ticket a 12-month season ticket (between two stations or zones)?
How close to its expiry was it? If there is any evidence to suggest that your friend let you borrow the ticket for you to use then your friend could also be in trouble and the ticket might not be returned.

If you read through other threads in the forum, while every case is different, you'll see that some people do apologise to the company concerned and sometimes manage to negotiate a financial settlement that might cover the fares the company has lost plus its costs in pursuing the matter.

 

[Terrified]

It's with FCC. It was an annual gold card with 6 months until expiry. I've read so many threads on the forum...as many as I can stomach. I truly cannot believe how grave this situation is for a real mistake. Now I am even more worried since BestWestern has brought up fraud...
Is this likely? I've drafted my version of events and would really apprecite an experienced eye to tell me if I'm in the right direction.

 

[tony6499]

Looks like at the best you will pay an out of court settlement and that your friend will not get his season ticket back, is he aware that he might lose his ticket and was he aware you 'borrowed' it ?

 

[Tibbs]

Some people on here delight in trying to scare the crap out of new posters like you.

If you've read through the threads on here you'll see that a lot (most) of the cases on here can be solved with the application of enough cash, and never make it to court.

Follow the procedure with everything sent off on time, offer to settle, and the chances are good (if this is a first offence and you write your version of the events correctly) that you'll receive an offer to settle.

Remember, the Train Operating Companies are not interested in justice. They're commercial organisations who have profit as their sole motivator. Make it worth their while and there's a good chance they'll take the money and leave it there.

 

[Tibbs]

OP it's important in your version of events, when it comes to that, to:

• Lay everything out logically and factually
• Avoid emotion and emotive language, stick to the facts
• Don't waffle
• Apologise for your mistake and say it won't happen again
• Tell the truth on anything they can verify independently (better to just tell the truth on everything)
• Make them aware of the impact on your life and that a conviction would be disproportionate to the offence. Do that dispassionately
• Offer to compensate them for their trouble
• Don't incrimminate yourself further (e.g. if you've done this before and not been caught don't mention it)

I've not been in this situation before, but from reading this forum extensively this is a list of things that seem to help.

 

[jon0844]

I don't think anyone will get great pleasure in rubbing your face in it, but I would expect you will need to pay a fair whack to get FCC off your back for this one.

The Gold Card has a space in the top right with a photocard number. I can't understand why you'd think you could simply get a photo card of your own and use it with a season ticket that has only room for one photo ID number, or indeed why you'd think that a ticket with a specific photo ID on it would be usable by anyone else. I think that having gone this proves obvious intent to defraud.

I think the bit that says 'USABLE ONLY WITH PHOTOCARD No.' is a major clue and also destroys any chance of leniency because of a claim that a season ticket plus any photo ID was like a railcard. For one, once you had the photo ID, you can't surely have thought you now had the ability to travel for free?

Frankly, what I or anyone else on here thinks or believes is totally irrelevant though. The fact is that no revenue protection officer is going to believe you didn't know what you were doing - and I doubt a court would either.

That is unless English isn't your first language and you can prove that you can't read or something. As a healthcare professional seeking to move to Australia, I have to assume you're not illiterate or else you'd have no chance.

Therefore, sadly, you are clearly looking at a fraud charge here if FCC wants to take it down that route. Your only hope is to seek an out of court settlement for what I'd imagine is going to be a fair bit of money (three figures for sure). FCC will want to get its money back, so is also likely going to be keen to keep it out of court too - but before you get too excited, that doesn't mean it will, so it can still play hard ball with you and make you pay through the nose to avoid court.

If it went to court, and you were found guilty, you would definitely get a criminal record as this would be a serious charge - and not a simple byelaw offence.

 

[BestWestern]

Some people on here delight in trying to scare the crap out of new posters like you.

If you've read through the threads on here you'll see that a lot (most) of the cases on here can be solved with the application of enough cash, and never make it to court.

Follow the procedure with everything sent off on time, offer to settle, and the chances are good (if this is a first offence and you write your version of the events correctly) that you'll receive an offer to settle.

Remember, the Train Operating Companies are not interested in justice. They're commercial organisations who have profit as their sole motivator. Make it worth their while and there's a good chance they'll take the money and leave it there.

Just not helpful, at all. Nobody is trying to 'scare' anybody, my advice - quite sensibly - was for the OP to engage some legal advice. The events described could result in allegations of fraud should FCC choose to go down that path. Your suggestion of "don't worry you can just pay them off" is of little value if FCC choose not to accept such an offer. TOCs are sometimes less willing to do so where the incident is more serious than a simple 'fare dodge'.

In these situations it is usually better for the individual concerned to be fully aware of all the possibilities and thus prepared, rather than being soothed into a misplaced sense of false security. It isn't what people want to hear, but it is the unfortunate reality.

 

[Greenback]

A couple of posts have been deleted form this thread, and I believe that Tibbs was referring to one of them.

As a reminder to everyone, please only post in this section if you have something constructive to offer the OP.

It is not constructive or helpful to simply tell a poster that they are in trouble, have done wrong and to list the most dire consequences that could result as if that were the only outcome.

It may well be true that the OP has done something wrong, but there is no point in repeatedly banging this into them. We are not judge and jury here.

 

[Tibbs]

A couple of posts have been deleted form this thread, and I believe that Tibbs was referring to one of them.

As a reminder to everyone, please only post in this section if you have something constructive to offer the OP.

It is not constructive or helpful to simply tell a poster that they are in trouble, have done wrong and to list the most dire consequences that could result as if that were the only outcome.

It may well be true that the OP has done something wrong, but there is no point in repeatedly banging this into them. We are not judge and jury here.

I was - I have to say that this section of the forum has improved noticably in the past month or so on the 'crowing & browbeating' front. I guess there's been some work done behind the scenes, so thanks to the Mods for that!

The advice I would give the OP is to read all of the posts made and come to a view of what to do from that. Bear in mind that I am at the far end of the 'money solves everything' scale, and others are more towards the 'TOC will prosecute to set an example'.

I'm sure someone better placed than me will volunteer to read your submission for you.

 

[Paule23]

Whilst I normally agree with being open and honest, and therefore the advice above about clearly setting out what happened to the TOC is good, be wary of incriminating yourself if you do not have to.

In your reply to the TOC you could well prove grounds for fraud and incriminate yourself prior to any trial. I would support other advice above to seek professional legal help prior to sending any further information to the TOC. I do not want to scaremonger, and I know you did not realise the seriousness of your mistake, but the TOC may have grounds to prosecute for fraud, so be very careful what you say.

Despite the above (and easy for me to say!) but there is little point losing sleep over this or continuing to worry yourself excessively. There is little you can do apart from send your reply and await further action from the TOC.

 

[Clip]

In your reply to the TOC you could well prove grounds for fraud and incriminate yourself prior to any trial. .

I don nthink they have to actually prove it at all. The OP has gone about using someone elses ticket WITH their own photocard - why would they use their own photocard if it wasnt to try and palm off the ticket as theirs - I think for the few cases on here that have had the use of someone elses season they have always NOT been accompanied with a photocard - by having one shows more intent to me than not.

However

I would support other advice above to seek professional legal help prior to sending any further information to the TOC.

I would echo this BUT it needs to be pointed out as the poster DaveNewcastle often says - for rail related legal help this costs a lot of money because its specialised assistance that your avegae brief on the high street will not be versed in.

I think at the moment the best thing for you is to compose your letter to FCC and if you want it checked then post back here (not the letter) and hopefully someone will take it on board from a PM conversation to assist you.

And also stop worrying. It will do you no good in the long run. You're in trouble and no amount of worrying will make that go away. There may be some people here who can help with a cash settlement to FCC but you will need a clear and calm mind to do so.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

As my last 2 posts have been deleted, may I (at the risk of this one being deleted) reiterate some advice so the original poster has something else to think about?

I sincerely hope you can do all you can to avoid a criminal record for fraud.

If you can reach a settlement with FCC away from the courts (and therefore avoid a criminal record) then that would end the matter and be a warning for you to not do this again.

Please heed the advice from the knowledgable members here and get legal advice as well.

If this goes to court and you do get a criminal record, then you will have to declare it on DBS checks within the healthcare profession

 

[Greenback]

If this goes to court and you do get a criminal record, then you will have to declare it on DBS checks within the healthcare profession

This is correct, although it is by no means certain that any such conviction will be considered relevant to your role (whatever that is). Such decisions are often taken by the person or person who are recruiting, and convictions of a financial nature will usually be more relevant to an accounting or auditing type role than, for example, a nurse.

So, while a conviction may be an additional obstacle in terms to having to declare it, provide details and discuss at an interview, it is by no means an automatic bar to getting a job within healthcare.

 

[Lockwood]

Both the HCPC and NMC mention that people registering are to be "of good character".
A crime of dishonesty may go against that, however I believe that that is required for initial registration; maintaining the registration might be easier, with a sincere "I made a mistake, which I regret and won't do again" position.
For the professional side of it, it might be worth speaking to your Unison rep.

 

[Terrified]

Thank you for you replies

In reply to why I thought I could use my photocard- it was stupid of me. The only season ticket I have bought was just a week pass. my photocard number wasnt written on it and it wasnt expressed to me that the card needed to be with the ticket (obviously as the number wasnt even written on the ticket) I still have this ticket if it can help me in any way in terms of evidence of pure ignorance?

Fraud seems such a huge horrifying word and conviction for this crime. I know I was definitely stupid and completely in the wrong but fraud seems so severe.

also the season ticket I used had no visible print on it as it had been worn by going through a ticket machine so many times. So again there was no readable photocard number on it, i didnt see it and ignore it I just didnt think of it/ made a presumption....which I will never do again

I am meant to be going on holiday tomorrow so dont have a chance to consult a solicitor before I leave. I need to post the letter before I go otherwise it will be cutting it far too close to the 21 day deadline. ANY kind of advise would be invaluable right now. Can I PM somebody my letter?

Thanks in advance

 

[jon0844]

The printed text might have faded, but the ticket itself would surely still have the bit about only being 'valid with photocard' etc.

If it had all faded that much, I am surprised it could be usable even my the legitimate owner.

Also, was the ticket confiscated? What is your friend going to do now?

 

[Terrified]

Yes the ticket was pretty much completely faded. I didn't really look at it closely before but when the inspector showed me I saw that nothing was really legible on it.
The ticket was confiscated.

 

[34D]

Thank you for you replies

In reply to why I thought I could use my photocard- it was stupid of me. The only season ticket I have bought was just a week pass. my photocard number wasnt written on it and it wasnt expressed to me that the card needed to be with the ticket (obviously as the number wasnt even written on the ticket) I still have this ticket if it can help me in any way in terms of evidence of pure ignorance?

Fraud seems such a huge horrifying word and conviction for this crime. I know I was definitely stupid and completely in the wrong but fraud seems so severe.

also the season ticket I used had no visible print on it as it had been worn by going through a ticket machine so many times. So again there was no readable photocard number on it, i didnt see it and ignore it I just didnt think of it/ made a presumption....which I will never do again

I am meant to be going on holiday tomorrow so dont have a chance to consult a solicitor before I leave. I need to post the letter before I go otherwise it will be cutting it far too close to the 21 day deadline. ANY kind of advise would be invaluable right now. Can I PM somebody my letter?

Thanks in advance

Feel free to send to me