Platform numbering standards?

[Hophead]

Waterloo East is as you say and has been for generations (perhaps right back to the 1920's?)

New Cross - the NR running lines are numbered 1-3 (since the last resignalling) but if the platforms were so numbered, the ELL would have to be 0 - I think that's the reason there.

Catford is a recent change (doesn't show on the SR Track Map) - a spin-off of the internet/mobile app age? Or do the departure indicators at street level show both stations in one? Not been there in years so don't know....

I have also read the justification that it avoids confusion if emergency services need to be summoned

 

[edwin_m]

There was talk of "merging" Wigan North Western and Wallgate, with departure indicators showing trains from both. If it goes ahead I'm not sure if it would involve re-numbering the platforms or giving them letters instead at one of the stations.

 

[transmanche]

I have also read the justification that it avoids confusion if emergency services need to be summoned

I'd tend to believe that, except for situations such as Finsbury Park - where platform numbers are duplicated in the tube and NR platforms. (Yet there are other stations such as Stratford where they share a single number range.)

 

[DownSouth]

I'd tend to believe that, except for situations such as Finsbury Park - where platform numbers are duplicated in the tube and NR platforms. (Yet there are other stations such as Stratford where they share a single number range.)

I have also read the justification that it avoids confusion if emergency services need to be summoned

I would also find it hard to believe - to me it sounds like a hand waving justification thought up by somebody with no real knowledge on the issue rather than something real.

For stations as large and complex as either Finsbury Park or Stratford, you'd expect there to be a staff presence at all times (who would be able to direct arriving emergency services personnel) and also regular orientation visits (maybe even drills) by the local emergency services - regardless of how the platform numbering goes.

A couple of my friends are paramedics, they got an orientation visit for a new station featuring not much more than two platforms, a bus interchange, carpark and pedestrian overpass with lifts.

 

[Starmill]

I'm highly jealous of all of you folk who get to have this debate! My local station does not have platform numbers!

Given that all the two-platform ones round here that don't have them, but some single-platform stations DO I'm very jealous! It also means that the announcements just say "The next train to arrive is the xx:xx service to..." Which can result in one announcement playing just before a different train arrives where the departure times are close together!

 

[telstarbox]

I'm highly jealous of all of you folk who get to have this debate! My local station does not have platform numbers!

Given that all the two-platform ones round here that don't have them, but some single-platform stations DO I'm very jealous! It also means that the announcements just say "The next train to arrive is the xx:xx service to..." Which can result in one announcement playing just before a different train arrives where the departure times are close together!

But on what I assume is your local line, are there not signs at the entrance saying "this platform for Piccadilly, the other one for the Airport"?

 

[davetheguard]

I believe former Great Western Railway stations are almost always numbered starting on the "down" side of the formation, i.e. from the "away from London" side of the line.

Thus at Reading, for example, platform 1 is a small bay platform on the extreme down side of the layout. I note, also, that even Basingstoke, in which the GWR ran in to the Southern station, platform numbering follows GWR-practice.

There are exceptions to this rule, but I think this may be because platform numbers have been altered since. For instance, I don't think Appleford (north of Didcot) actually had any platform numbers until Network SouthEast days, when signs were put up with the London-bouind platform becoming platform 1, and the other (the down) being 2.

Oxford too is odd, but again this was a B.R. era change, when just two platforms remained in passenger use. Under this scenario, it made some sense to re-number the platform for London to 1. But with the north-facing bay later re-opening, this has resulted in the odd sequence left to right looking north of 2,1,3!

 

[rugbymidland]

And why do some stations have a platform 0 ?

 

[swt_passenger]

And why do some stations have a platform 0 ?

Usually to save nugatory expense altering signalling if it is not due to be done in the same timescales, as explained earlier in the thread, e.g. post #18. It is widely expected that when Kings Cross is next re-signalled, its platform zero, and all the others, will be re-numbered from 1 as usual.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

...I note, also, that even Basingstoke, in which the GWR ran in to the Southern station, platform numbering follows GWR-practice.

Equally likely that it follows LSWR practice and has 1 on the main entrance side, just like Guildford; and as per the original thread subject?

 

[transmanche]

It is widely expected that when Kings Cross is next re-signalled, its platform zero, and all the others, will be re-numbered from 1 as usual.

Which at least means that the 'Platform 9 3/4' artwork will finally be in the right place!

 

[swt_passenger]

Which at least means that the 'Platform 9 3/4' artwork will finally be in the right place!

Yes, I expect that will be the main advantage shown in any BCR...

 

[AndyNLondon]

Highbury & Islington must get a few points for having platform numbers 1,2 7, & 8 in a row at the surface section of the station, with 3-6 being at tube level.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Stations on the Thameslink (FCC) lines tend to have platform 1 on the 'up' line (to London) except:

St Pancras Low level (and Kings Cross Thameslink before it) - Letters used
Farringdon - Underground lines are 1 and 2, the 'up' line is 3
Blackfriars - Platform 1 is southbound
London Bridge - Platform 1 is southbound
Haywards Heath 1 & 2 are southbound
Brighton - Platform 1 and 2 head west along the coast

Also, Liverpool Lime Street has two platforms numbered '1' (The main upper level station has one and the Merseyrail platform is the other).

It's also confusing when platforms aren't numbered in order. Oxford has p1 by the main entrance (town side), p2 opposite p1 and p3, the north bay, to the town side of p1...

It is rather interesting in comparison to Bedford, for which the bay is 1a (although it is south facing).

But on what I assume is your local line, are there not signs at the entrance saying "this platform for Piccadilly, the other one for the Airport"?

I tend to find that the only things more unread than those signs are the "Keep away from the platform edge" signs......

 

[Starmill]

But on what I assume is your local line, are there not signs at the entrance saying "this platform for Piccadilly, the other one for the Airport"?

Well yeah of course they do, but why does that mean platform numbers aren't appropriate? LOADS of places have signs saying which trains depart from which platforms, does that mean they don't have platform numbers!?

 

[318259]

Many UK areas had Up/Down defined in the opposite direction at some point in the past, before their integration into a nationally regulated network had the local Up/Down abandoned for the London-centric convention. This could yet happen again if Scotland secedes from the UK, their new railway authority might define anywhere from one to three conventions (three = Up towards Glasgow, Up towards Edinburgh, and something else for routes linking the two) which would all have UK-Scotland trains starting as Down trains and becoming Up trains at the international border.

This probably wouldn't be a big problem, as Glasgow and Edinburgh are pretty close by. Although Glasgow is the biggest city, Edinburgh is the capital, so it gets to be 'up' most of the time. Most of the Glasgow-Edinburgh line have platform 1 going towards Edinburgh and platform 2 going towards Glasgow.

The weird exception is the Helensburgh - Glasgow Queen Street - Airdrie - Bathgate - Edinburgh line. The section between Airdrie and Bathgate is new. So between Glasgow and Airdrie, Glasgow is up. Then it switches to Edinburgh. So a train from Helensburgh to Edinburgh goes Up-Down-Up.

 

[Railsigns]

The weird exception is the Helensburgh - Glasgow Queen Street - Airdrie - Bathgate - Edinburgh line. The section between Airdrie and Bathgate is new. So between Glasgow and Airdrie, Glasgow is up. Then it switches to Edinburgh. So a train from Helensburgh to Edinburgh goes Up-Down-Up.

No. A train travelling from Helensburgh to Edinburgh travels in the Up direction throughout its entire journey. The platform numbers do switch sides, however.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Many UK areas had Up/Down defined in the opposite direction at some point in the past, before their integration into a nationally regulated network had the local Up/Down abandoned for the London-centric convention. This could yet happen again if Scotland secedes from the UK, their new railway authority might define anywhere from one to three conventions (three = Up towards Glasgow, Up towards Edinburgh, and something else for routes linking the two) which would all have UK-Scotland trains starting as Down trains and becoming Up trains at the international border.

It's highly unlikely that any lines in Scotland would change direction as a result of independence. It would cost a lot and achieve very little.

A train from Dublin to Belfast travels in the Down direction from end to end; there's no change of line direction at that border.

 

[fairysdad]

I believe former Great Western Railway stations are almost always numbered starting on the "down" side of the formation, i.e. from the "away from London" side of the line.

Thus at Reading, for example, platform 1 is a small bay platform on the extreme down side of the layout. I note, also, that even Basingstoke, in which the GWR ran in to the Southern station, platform numbering follows GWR-practice.

There are exceptions to this rule, but I think this may be because platform numbers have been altered since. For instance, I don't think Appleford (north of Didcot) actually had any platform numbers until Network SouthEast days, when signs were put up with the London-bouind platform becoming platform 1, and the other (the down) being 2.

Oxford too is odd, but again this was a B.R. era change, when just two platforms remained in passenger use. Under this scenario, it made some sense to re-number the platform for London to 1. But with the north-facing bay later re-opening, this has resulted in the odd sequence left to right looking north of 2,1,3!

You can see this at Tiverton Parkway too, where Platform 2 is the Up platform and also the location of the station building and main passenger entrance whereas Platform 1 on the Down side simply has a bus-style waiting shelter or two! Until reading this, I never knew why that was, as it makes sense to have either the main platform or the Up platform to be 1. Interestingly though, Tiverton Parkway was never a GWR station, nor (as far as I can tell) was it a BR Western Region station*, so interesting that it used the GWR convention for numbering!


(* Wikipedia (yes, I know...) tells me that the BR Western Region ceased with the sectorisation in 1982; TVP was opened in 1986.)

 

[DownSouth]

You can see this at Tiverton Parkway too, where Platform 2 is the Up platform and also the location of the station building and main passenger entrance whereas Platform 1 on the Down side simply has a bus-style waiting shelter or two! Until reading this, I never knew why that was, as it makes sense to have either the main platform or the Up platform to be 1. Interestingly though, Tiverton Parkway was never a GWR station, nor (as far as I can tell) was it a BR Western Region station*, so interesting that it used the GWR convention for numbering!

To keep it consistent with other stations in the area seems sensible.

 

[civ-eng-jim]

I have been (semi) reliably informed that the platforms were numbered in relation to the old signal box with 1 being nearest. (0, as someone has said, being an additional platform added later)

Discuss.

 

[krus_aragon]

Cardiff Queen St is an example of the nubmering system being changed round. Before its current expansion, platforms were numbered 1,2,3 in order from the main entrance. Now that it's being expanded to five platforms, they've been renumbered 5,4,3,2,1 from the entrance. Why: I have no idea...

 

[davetheguard]

Cardiff Queen St is an example of the nubmering system being changed round. Before its current expansion, platforms were numbered 1,2,3 in order from the main entrance. Now that it's being expanded to five platforms, they've been renumbered 5,4,3,2,1 from the entrance. Why: I have no idea...

There's also the strange fact that all trains northbound away from Cardiff to the valley termini stations are regarded as travelling in an "up" direction. While "up" fits in with the idea of going up hill to the end of the line, it flies in the face of the accepted railway practice of "up" being towards London. I don't know if this "up" nomenclature in the valleys has always applied, or is a more recent change.

However, if it used to be "down" to say, Treherbert, Aberdare etc., then the old numbering would fit in with the GWR rule at Cardiff Queen St. (platform 1 on the extreme down side). Now that the line to these places is regarded as "up", you could say that the new numbering system also fits in with the GWR numbering system: once again, platform 1 is on the extreme down side.

 

[edwin_m]

"Up" to the Valleys makes sense because the orientation of Cardiff Central means that trains going to the northern Valleys are in the same direction as trains going to London. If it was the other way round, a lot of trains would have to change designation between Central and Queen Street, and possibly again on the west side of Central. As it is only the City Line needs to change designation.

 

[Railsigns]

(* Wikipedia (yes, I know...) tells me that the BR Western Region ceased with the sectorisation in 1982

The regional structure of BR ended in 1992, well after sectorisation.

 

[D6975]

Bristol Temple Meads has its platforms the opposite way round to the GWR norm, they were swapped round during the resignalling many years ago (70s was it?). We are due to see another renumbering before too long too. Electrification, extra platforms and resignalling are all coming soon.

 

[krus_aragon]

There's also the strange fact that all trains northbound away from Cardiff to the valley termini stations are regarded as travelling in an "up" direction. While "up" fits in with the idea of going up hill to the end of the line, it flies in the face of the accepted railway practice of "up" being towards London. I don't know if this "up" nomenclature in the valleys has always applied, or is a more recent change.

I know that the Taff Vale Railway (Cardiff-Merthyr) always had "up" going up the valley (following the route of the Glamorgan Canal). As the only "railway" in the area in the 1830s, they'd have used the same terminology as the canals and tramways of the area: up is up! The other independent companies of the area (Rhymney, Barry) followed the same approach with their railways, but I think the pre-grouping GWR might have followed their own company policy instead when they built their own branches up the valleys.

 

[Class 170101]

If you want a really confusing station how about Edinburgh.

Platform 20 is next to number 1. I believe the numbering works on a clockwise sequence.

 

[edwin_m]

Waverley used to be in a clockwise sequence excluding the two platforms south of the trainshed, which took the last two numbers (20 and 21 I think). It has recently been changed, still clockwise but removing the numbers of some east end platforms that no longer exist and bringing the two south platforms and the new through platforms into the sequence. Either by luck or design they managed to do this while keeping the same numbers for all the west end bays - but it's still confusing for people like me who were regular users many years ago but now visit only rarely. Especially as the signage to locate the platforms isn't the best.

 

[6Gman]

Cardiff Queen St is an example of the nubmering system being changed round. Before its current expansion, platforms were numbered 1,2,3 in order from the main entrance. Now that it's being expanded to five platforms, they've been renumbered 5,4,3,2,1 from the entrance. Why: I have no idea...

Crewe was also reversed after it was remodelled (1985?). 1 & 2 were the down through platforms; 3 was bi-directional; 4-6 were up platforms. The bays were 1A (etc) if up bays, 1B 9etc) if down bays. After remodelling they were renumbered t'other way round and the bays were given their own numbers. So the former 6 became 1, the former 2 became 12. Platform 5 remained Platform 5!

The use of A and B suffixes for bays seems to have fallen out of favour generally, with bays now getting individual numbers.

 

[Bushy]

Ashford (Kent) had platforms numbered (1-4) from down side to up when I was at school in the 1960s/70s but they were renumbered from up to down soon after to match other stations on the Kent Coast Main Line. The original numbering may have been due to the main entrance being on the down side when the station was built. Now that it is Ashford International we have 6 platforms with 3 & 4 being international.

The Southern London terminus stations seem to be numbered left to right in the down direction.

Regards

Bushy

 

[edwin_m]

The use of A and B suffixes for bays seems to have fallen out of favour generally, with bays now getting individual numbers.

Not always. Exceptions are Sheffield and Birmingham New Street, where at both 4a and 4b are halves of a through platform but 4c is an adjacent bay. This has been the case at Sheffield as long as I can remember but 4c at New Street is recent, and was presumably so named to minimise passenger confusion while avoiding renumbering of all the other platforms.