Platform Numbering Anomalies

[Ant1966]

If we are allowed to go into mainland Europe; I offer you St Pierre Des Corps (Tours)
From North to South, the main 4 platforms are:
1, Z, 2 and 6.
(there is also a bay platform 4 on the Southern Island 2 & 6)
Nope, me neither...

 

[Richard Scott]

Am I correct in thinking that Cardiff Central has no platform 5?

 

[croydontangle]

West Croydon has no platform 2 as they never renumbered after extending platform 3 over the old Wimbledon bay

 

[dgl]

Yeovil Pen Mill has platforms 1, 2 and 3 but 1 and 2 serve the same line (2 is on the island with 3, whereas 1 is a regular/non-island platform) and as such 2 is never used. This does mean the barrow crossing by the signal box only needs to traverse one line though, and, I suppose, the overbridge is shorter as well.

 

[Steddenm]

Llandudno Junction has a platform 5 which isn't served by trains, rather local bus services and rail replacement services. Have heard buses announced as being on platform 5 before when trains are replaced by bus toeards Holyhead, Llandudno, Blaenau Ffestiniog and onwards to Chester.

 

[wimbledonpete]

As far as I can tell, throughout its time Dover Marine/Dover Western Docks only had platforms 3, 4, 5 and 6.

Is this simply because of the two roads without platforms numbered 1 and 2?

Are there any other similar cases of strange/even counter-intuitive (from a passenger's viewpoint) historic numbering like this?

From the Middleton Press Ashford to Dover volume (from when DWD was still open): "[The platforms] are still numbered 3 to 6 although nos 1 & 2 roads on the quayside are no longer in use."

 

[D1537]

There’s been a few previous threads noting that a fair number of “Southern Region” stations are numbered based on platform 1 being on the side of the line where the original main entrance building is/was. There’s no hard and fast rule about P1 sides, and I doubt in modern times people are keen on the costs of change.

Every two-platform station on the ECML (that's around 30 of them) has platform 1 Southbound and platform 2 Northbound except for two - Thirsk and Chester-le-Street. The station buildings are on the Platform 2 side as well in both cases, so that's not the reason. Historical reasons, perhaps, or just randomness?

 

[E B]

Oban has only platforms 3 and 4

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Oban has only platforms 3 and 4

It did once. Disappeared in the 1980's when Oban was re-built. Another example of platforms not being re-numbered following a substantial remodelling of a station?

 

[D6130]

Oban has only platforms 3 and 4

That's because platforms 1 & 2 were under the now-demolished train shed and 3 & 4 were never re-numbered.

 

[E B]

That's because platforms 1 & 2 were under the now-demolished train shed and 3 & 4 were never re-numbered.

Ah.

 

[hexagon789]

That's because platforms 1 & 2 were under the now-demolished train shed and 3 & 4 were never re-numbered.

The trainshed platforms must have been renumbered at some point as old photos show the old trainshed platforms were numbered 3, 4 and 5 - with 3 being double-sided.

The signalling plan also suggests that the current station has 4 platforms with each face have two numbers - one at each end.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Am I correct in thinking that Cardiff Central has no platform 5?

Not anymore. It was a west end bay. The signage in the subway remains as I believe the architecture is listed.

 

[Topological]

Not anymore. It was a west end bay. The signage in the subway remains as I believe the architecture is listed.

I was about to add that. Potentially, a west end bay would be useful now with the Swanline services and half of the West Wales trains turning round at Cardiff.

 

[MadMac]

It did once. Disappeared in the 1980's when Oban was re-built. Another example of platforms not being re-numbered following a substantial remodelling of a station?

Several Scottish examples:

Motherwell was 1-2-5-6 for a long time due to 3 and 4 being removed. It was renumbered when the station was rebuilt for the WCML electrification.

Stirling lacks 1, 4 and 5, although all three still exist as non-passenger.

Waverley lacked 2-6 plus 8 and 9 for a long time. Also, the suburban platforms 20 and 21 were out of sequence with the rest of the station until relatively recently.

Wasn’t Glasgow Queen Street Low Level 10 and 11 long after 8 and 9 disappeared from High Level? Does Aberdeen still have no 1 and 2?

 

[LowLevel]

Skegness has platforms 3 and 4 in regular use, 5 and 6 technically available for use, and 2 and 7 disused.

Right idea though the wrong detail -

Skegness is:
Platform 1 - gone since the 60s/70s.

Platform 2 - contingency use only. Only surfaced for 3 coach lengths, only old fashioned edging bricks, no lighting so only available during the daylight or emergencies.

Platforms 3 and 4 - full length, fully lit, regular use platforms. 4 preferred due to the reduced number of mechanical points movements for the signaller and 3 has also had issued with the trackbed flooding.

Platform 5 - 6 car length available (I think, never took anything longer in), no lighting, daylight hours only.

Platforms 6 and 7 - both network changed out of use, Platform 6 has no departure signals, Platform 7 (and possibly 6) has the odd rail missing.

Confusingly, Sheffield Platform 2C, is a separate platform to 2A and B. I’m not sure if there’s a historical reason?

It's an old dock - to this day you get a "D" on the theatre box rather than a Platform number when arriving. I assume it was a 1970s or 80s conversion to allow the then 2 car Hope Valley local services to sit out of the way.

 

[Iskra]

Right idea though the wrong detail -

Skegness is:
Platform 1 - gone since the 60s/70s.

Platform 2 - contingency use only. Only surfaced for 3 coach lengths, only old fashioned edging bricks, no lighting so only available during the daylight or emergencies.

Platforms 3 and 4 - full length, fully lit, regular use platforms. 4 preferred due to the reduced number of mechanical points movements for the signaller and 3 has also had issued with the trackbed flooding.

Platform 5 - 6 car length available (I think, never took anything longer in), no lighting, daylight hours only.

Platforms 6 and 7 - both network changed out of use, Platform 6 has no departure signals, Platform 7 (and possibly 6) has the odd rail missing.

It's an old dock - to this day you get a "D" on the theatre box rather than a Platform number when arriving. I assume it was a 1970s or 80s conversion to allow the then 2 car Hope Valley local services to sit out of the way.

Thanks for the info

 

[Falcon1200]

Stirling lacks 1, 4 and 5, although all three still exist as non-passenger.

Thanks for the info on 4 and 5 but 1 doesn't exist any more, it's now a car park!

 

[SargeNpton]

Away from the GWML Northampton's platforms are arranged 3,2,1,4 and 5 when looking north

Until the 1980s, 4 and 5 were unnumbered bay platforms used for parcels traffic.

 

[MadMac]

Thanks for the info on 4 and 5 but 1 doesn't exist any more, it's now a car park!

After writing, it occurred to me that 1 may be an ex-platform which has ceased to be!

 

[Morayshire]

Does Aberdeen still have no 1 and 2?

Platforms 1 and 2 still exist. Both used for empty stock stabling purposes.

Funny feeling that Platform 1 has been truncated in length though

 

[Blockman]

Confusingly, Sheffield Platform 2C, is a separate platform to 2A and B. I’m not sure if there’s a historical reason?

In the mechanical signalling era, there wasn't a platform 2c. It was a siding, controlled from Sheffield South No. No.1 box. See: https://www.thetransportlibrary.co....ae8b817bc-sheffield-south-box-diagram-11-8-72

When the PSB was brought into use, the siding (called a "Dock" on the road-learning diagram) was controlled from a ground frame, released from the PSB. At a later stage (some time in the second half of the 1980s I think, but I am by no means certain without a bit of research) it was brought into direct control from the PSB and signalled to passenger standards. numbering it as 2c kept the logical series of numbers across the station; 2c is near to 2a &b. Here it is some time after the control panel panel had been replaced in 2006. https://photos.signalling.org/picture?/22508/category/2444-2008_august

 

[Chrius56000]

. . .Can anyone suggest why, altho' both Lancaster and Preston have all usable platforms numbered in sequence, none of the signalling approaching either station indicates an actual platform number?

 

[Iskra]

In the mechanical signalling era, there wasn't a platform 2c. It was a siding, controlled from Sheffield South No. No.1 box. See: https://www.thetransportlibrary.co....ae8b817bc-sheffield-south-box-diagram-11-8-72

When the PSB was brought into use, the siding (called a "Dock" on the road-learning diagram) was controlled from a ground frame, released from the PSB. At a later stage (some time in the second half of the 1980s I think, but I am by no means certain without a bit of research) it was brought into direct control from the PSB and signalled to passenger standards. numbering it as 2c kept the logical series of numbers across the station; 2c is near to 2a &b. Here it is some time after the control panel panel had been replaced in 2006. https://photos.signalling.org/picture?/22508/category/2444-2008_august

Thank you!

 

[MadMac]

. . .Can anyone suggest why, altho' both Lancaster and Preston have all usable platforms numbered in sequence, none of the signalling approaching either station indicates an actual platform number?

Trains can, in theory, run through them at relatively high speed, particularly Lancaster. The “rules of the game” at the time with regard to alpha-numeric “Theatre” route indicators was maximum speed of 40 MPH and all routes must display an indication. Therefore, the position light junction indicators were used.

 

[Chrius56000]

Trains can, in theory, run through them at relatively high speed, particularly Lancaster. The “rules of the game” at the time with regard to alpha-numeric “Theatre” route indicators was maximum speed of 40 MPH and all routes must display an indication. Therefore, the position light junction indicators were used.

. . .Quote so, but Preston is subject to an Overall Speed Limit of 35 mph throughout the station area and I would have thought that the last signals before the platform entries were all within scope for "theatre" route indicators, that's all!

. . .If I remember correctly, O.S. Nock's book "Electric Euston To Glasgow", which dealt with the modernisation of the W.C.M.L. signalling, remarked something like "The speed limit through Preston Station is 35 mph and as virtually all trains are timetabled to stop there was no economic reason to remodel the station for higher speeds."

 

[zwk500]

. . .Quote so, but Preston is subject to an Overall Speed Limit of 35 mph throughout the station area and I would have thought that the last signals before the platform entries were all within scope for "theatre" route indicators, that's all!

. . .If I remember correctly, O.S. Nock's book "Electric Euston To Glasgow", which dealt with the modernisation of the W.C.M.L. signalling, remarked something like "The speed limit through Preston Station is 35 mph and as virtually all trains are timetabled to stop there was no economic reason to remodel the station for higher speeds."

If you can signal all routes clearly with route indicators, why go with a greater constraint?

 

[BeijingDave]

. . .Quote so, but Preston is subject to an Overall Speed Limit of 35 mph throughout the station area and I would have thought that the last signals before the platform entries were all within scope for "theatre" route indicators, that's all!

. . .If I remember correctly, O.S. Nock's book "Electric Euston To Glasgow", which dealt with the modernisation of the W.C.M.L. signalling, remarked something like "The speed limit through Preston Station is 35 mph and as virtually all trains are timetabled to stop there was no economic reason to remodel the station for higher speeds."

Are there any passenger trains that don't stop at Preston?

As I recall, even the APT services in the 80s stopped there (but not Crewe or Carlisle).

 

[hexagon789]

Are there any passenger trains that don't stop at Preston?

As I recall, even the APT services in the 80s stopped there (but not Crewe or Carlisle).

I think the last regular passenger services to be scheduled through Preston without calling were the pre-electrificaton Royal Scots which called at Crewe and Carlisle but not Preston in both directions.

That arrangement applied from 1970 to 1974. After electrification, the Royal Scot became Preston only until they started fiddling with the timetable again in 1980/1.

The APT was usually Watford and Preston or Preston and Motherwell IIRC.

 

[D1537]

I think the last regular passenger services to be scheduled through Preston without calling were the pre-electrificaton Royal Scots which called at Crewe and Carlisle but not Preston in both directions.

That arrangement applied from 1970 to 1974. After electrification, the Royal Scot became Preston only until they started fiddling with the timetable again in 1980/1.

The APT was usually Watford and Preston or Preston and Motherwell IIRC.

Not a WCML service but the SO Sheffield-Blackpool and return service was not booked to stop there for many years, certainly well into the 80s.