Platform lights on 'permanently'.

[Deepgreen]

I have lost count of the number of major stations I have been to recently where all open-air platform lighting has been on permanently, in very bright ambient lighting conditions. Most recently I was at Bristol Temple Meads in brilliant sunshine and the platforms all had their lights on all day as far as I could tell (I was there in the morning and late afternoon). Even with LED lighting, the sheer waste of energy is depressing and the issue is becoming more and more common. Is there a common fault at the root of it or is it down to local indifference? I imagine/hope that the lighting is light-sensitive, so are the sensors failing? Does anyone in 'management' even care?

 

[Mawkie]

I have lost count of the number of major stations I have been to recently where all open-air platform lighting has been on permanently, in very bright ambient lighting conditions. Most recently I was at Bristol Temple Meads in brilliant sunshine and the platforms all had their lights on all day as far as I could tell (I was there in the morning and late afternoon). Even with LED lighting, the sheer waste of energy is depressing and the issue is becoming more and more common. Is there a common fault at the root of it or is it down to local indifference? I imagine/hope that the lighting is light-sensitive, so are the sensors failing? Does anyone in 'management' even care?

What did 'management' say when you contacted them?

 

[Russel]

What did 'management' say when you contacted them?

Maybe one of the hundreds of rail staff that pass through stations like Temple Meeds on a daily basis could raise it with their management?

 

[Lemmy99uk]

Maybe one of the hundreds of rail staff that pass through stations like Temple Meeds on a daily basis could raise it with their management?

Maybe they have, and maybe there’s a perfectly good reason.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I imagine/hope that the lighting is light-sensitive, so are the sensors failing?

Bird poo and other muck on the sensors, perhaps? That would make the lights think it was dark?

 

[Elecman]

Failed photocell is the ussual reason as they fail in the Lights On mode. Or the maintenance staff have put them in Manual and forgotten to reset them to Auto

 

[Russel]

Maybe they have, and maybe there’s a perfectly good reason.

OP States all of the platform lights were on during the day, there is no good reason for that.

 

[Annetts key]

Keep in mind these things:

1, Bristol Temple Meads has a history of leaving all the lights on even during sunny days. Only occasionally have I seen some of them not lit on sunny days. Although before the recent renewal work, some of the fluorescent tube fittings had been replaced with LED types that had sensors, if they detected no movement, after a delay they anyone switched to a low light mode. Was fun to watch each one switch back to normal light mode as a train passes through on the platform line.

2, A large number of the platforms have had new lighting installed. So any control gear should be new. If they are permanently lit, maybe that's intentional.

When BR ran the railways, I know that many stations that were unstaffed or not fully staffed had both a light sensor and a timeclock. The station lighting was only on if it was being called for by the timeclock (normally set for the lighting to come on before the first train of the day and to go out after the last train of the day) and the light sensor detected that it was dark.

Since privatisation, the maintenance was contracted out and these systems may no longer operate as intended... Often, unless a member of staff reports an issue, nothing will get done. Certainly that was the case with the lighting for Bristol Panel (PSB) and the staff car park (for the PSB and the TOC sfaff) and the public car park.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 May 2026 ==

Bird poo and other muck on the sensors, perhaps? That would make the lights think it was dark?

I'm told by someone who used to maintain street lights that its rarely bird muck. It's either the light sensor (called an LDR) or the switching contacts that has failed.

 

[Lemmy99uk]

OP States all of the platform lights were on during the day, there is no good reason for that.

Of course there is. There could be all sorts of of electrical or systems testing or maintenance going on.

 

[Russel]

Of course there is. There could be all sorts of of electrical or systems testing or maintenance going on.

Possible, but I highly doubt it.

Annetts Key's post above yours puts this theory to bed...

It's just another example of the railway in general bleeding money while simultaneously not taking revenue protection seriously.

1, Bristol Temple Meads has a history of leaving all the lights on even during sunny days. Only occasionally have I seen some of them not lit on sunny days. Although before the recent renewal work, some of the fluorescent tube fittings had been replaced with LED types that had sensors, if they detected no movement, after a delay they anyone switched to a low light mode. Was fun to watch each one switch back to normal light mode as a train passes through on the platform line.

 

[Acathater]

I can't comment about UK railways, but it used to be common on British factory sites to leave fluorescent lights on 24/7 to reduce overall costs. The light tubes were most likely to fail at power on / off and depending on the numbers and difficulty of access the cost involved in having to do regular replacements could be more than the extra power costs. Also the failures - if frequent - could be a safety hazard.
The downside of course was that in the event of a lamp shorting out overnight and causing a fire then there would be fewer people on site to notice / react....
It used to be taught at industrial safety evaluation courses as an example of the trade off between cost and safety, specifically quoting a fire somewhere in the northeast where a warehouse full of polystyrene belonging to BASF burnt down overnight after a lamp shorted.
Somewhere like Temple Meads where there's little risk of a lamp causing a significant fire, but access could be problematic then it could make sense to leave the lights on. Of course the current cost of electricity could change the decision

 

[JKF]

I used to do work on Edge Hill carriage sidings about 15 years ago and there was a big long carriage shed, open ended, which was empty and quiet during the day, but not only was the lighting on, they had great big radiant bar heaters up near the roof that appeared to be on permanently, warming up the wind blowing through from each end! So a few platform LED lights being left on is probably nothing in the scheme of things.

 

[Annetts key]

I can't comment about UK railways, but it used to be common on British factory sites to leave fluorescent lights on 24/7 to reduce overall costs. The light tubes were most likely to fail at power on / off and depending on the numbers and difficulty of access the cost involved in having to do regular replacements could be more than the extra power costs. Also the failures - if frequent - could be a safety hazard.
The downside of course was that in the event of a lamp shorting out overnight and causing a fire then there would be fewer people on site to notice / react....
It used to be taught at industrial safety evaluation courses as an example of the trade off between cost and safety, specifically quoting a fire somewhere in the northeast where a warehouse full of polystyrene belonging to BASF burnt down overnight after a lamp shorted.
Somewhere like Temple Meads where there's little risk of a lamp causing a significant fire, but access could be problematic then it could make sense to leave the lights on. Of course the current cost of electricity could change the decision

A couple of things here.

Fluorescent tube lights are gas discharge lights and although there are more than two or three failure modes, the most common are:

• Failure of the heater filament (lamp cathode) at one end (there is one at either end) causing the tube to fail to strike (start) or resulting in the lamp flashing or bad flickering. This is the part that is most likely to fail at switch-on. But even during normal operation, the emissive coating on these filaments wears off.
• Mercury depletion (glows a dim pink instead of starting normally)
• Loss of brightness due to the phosphor coating wearing out.

Tubes eventually wear out due to one of the above reasons.

There is also the glow switch starter (if the fitting does not use an electronic ballast/gear). Failure of this either causes just the ends to glow orange or the tube fails to light at all.

Because of the various different starter and ballast/gear designs there is no simple determination on which is better, leaving them on 24/7 or only switching them on when needed.

Also of note is that the old design of street lights (sodium) are also gas discharge lights and these are designed to switch off during the day...

Regarding Bristol Temple Meads, all of the above is not relevant, as the new lighting is LED type. These have different failure modes. Again, its not a simple determination. But LEDs do have a limited life (the LED chips degrade over time causing the light output to drop over time, in addition the phosphor also degrades) and because they look like they are using integrated LED fittings, when they fail you have to replace the complete fitting.

One other thing. Lighting should be rated to operate continuously without getting hot enough to start a fire. But if lights are turned off for say eight hours per day, that does give them a chance to cool down. For fluorescent tube lights, the tube ends and the ballast / gear can get very hot.

I did notice today that not all the lighting renewal work is complete at Bristol Temple Meads. So maybe the work on the control gear has also not been completed.

 

[Elecman]

Keep in mind these things:

When BR ran the railways, I know that many stations that were unstaffed or not fully staffed had both a light sensor and a timeclock. The station lighting was only on if it was being called for by the timeclock (normally set for the lighting to come on before the first train of the day and to go out after the last train of the day) and the light sensor detected that it was dark.


I'm told by someone who used to maintain street lights that its rarely bird muck. It's either the light sensor (called an LDR) or the switching contacts that has failed.

the ubiquitous Royce Thompson controllers now mostly usurped by Merlin Gerin(Schneider) equivalents that are a pain to set up correctly

 

[Deepgreen]

Thanks for all the responses. The fact remains, though, that I witness so many stations with their platform lights on all day in fine weather that, whatever the reason(s), something is clearly seriously wrong at a root level. It seems that automatic systems are too prone to failure, and/or that staff don't care/don't notice/can't do anything about it. A sad state of affairs. Most of the stations I have seen with the issue have LED lighting, which obviously reduces the cost of the waste, but it is still a significant waste and a poor advert for the railway's management.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 May 2026 ==

the ubiquitous Royce Thompson controllers now mostly usurped by Merlin Gerin(Schneider) equivalents that are a pain to set up correctly

Oh good - progress, then!

 

[edwin_m]

Ball park figure for LED street lamps is 100 watts each so platform lamps are likely to be similar. A small station with 10 lamps would therefore consume about 1kW or about 30p per hour or about £2600 if left on 24/7/365, plus extra replacement costs due to being lit for longer. A big station like Temple Meads could easily be 10 times that. So even with LEDs it looks like spending a few pounds on a system that would switch them off in bright daylight would be worthwhile, even if it was difficult to switch them off at night without the system knowing if passengers or staff were still around.

 

[The exile]

Ball park figure for LED street lamps is 100 watts each so platform lamps are likely to be similar. A small station with 10 lamps would therefore consume about 1kW or about 30p per hour or about £2600 if left on 24/7/365, plus extra replacement costs due to being lit for longer. A big station like Temple Meads could easily be 10 times that. So even with LEDs it looks like spending a few pounds on a system that would switch them off in bright daylight would be worthwhile, even if it was difficult to switch them off at night without the system knowing if passengers or staff were still around.

Or is it minus costs because they're not being switched on and off? Add in the costs of maintaining and repairing switching systems (light level detectors or whatever) and I suspect the savings start becoming minimal (remember - of those 24/7/365 the lights are going to be on a lot of the time anyway - not just at night but also on gloomy days. ) Any extra switching increases the risk of a complete failure of the lighting, to be avoided at (maybe not quite) all costs!

 

[Russel]

Ball park figure for LED street lamps is 100 watts each so platform lamps are likely to be similar. A small station with 10 lamps would therefore consume about 1kW or about 30p per hour or about £2600 if left on 24/7/365, plus extra replacement costs due to being lit for longer. A big station like Temple Meads could easily be 10 times that. So even with LEDs it looks like spending a few pounds on a system that would switch them off in bright daylight would be worthwhile, even if it was difficult to switch them off at night without the system knowing if passengers or staff were still around.

Meanwhile, Avanti are being told to cut services to save money...

 

[iamraymond]

I'm travelling through Temple Meads on Saturday, I'll do my best to turn them off!

 

[Clarence Yard]

It’s poor reporting and maintenance procedures that leads to lights being left on, if there is a fault. Time was the local ODM would be rung up and an electrician would be dispatched to investigate and hopefully sort it out.

If there was a problem with an individual (raise and lower) column, the electrician’s mate would have the spring jack to drop the column for detailed examination. Station lighting and associated controls used to be subject to defined cleaning and preventative maintenance routines.

If someone can’t be bothered and leaves the lights on all the time, questions need to be asked as to what is going on.

 

[thenorthern]

What are the rules with lights? I know at Uttoxeter the lights used to switch off at 23:00 which given at the time the line closed at 22:02 this made perfect sense as it saved money.

On other lines however such as the one though Alsager the line is officially open 24 hours a day so does the platform need to be lit if there are passing goods trains?

 

[westcoaster]

What are the rules with lights? I know at Uttoxeter the lights used to switch off at 23:00 which given at the time the line closed at 22:02 this made perfect sense as it saved money.

On other lines however such as the one though Alsager the line is officially open 24 hours a day so does the platform need to be lit if there are passing goods trains?

Alot of the stations i pass through are open 24/7/365.
The lights go into a dim standby mode, after a set period of time (even during station dwell times). As we approach the lights one by one brighten. So each individual light must have a movement sensor fitted.

 

[DannyMich2018]

I live in Hinckley and my local part-time staffed station I've only ever seen the platform lights (including the few under the canopy) on in the daytime once and that was because some work was been done to the station/canopy most likely,
Nuneaton up until a couple or so years ago used to be awful, wasn't unknown for all outside platform lights to be on all day on 1-5 , the forecourt lights on the outside drop off area were always pretty much on all day, platform 6 and 7 can be off or on at anytime, since then they've been modernised and on 1-5 only come on when it's getting dark.
Leicester was also pretty poor but are only really on when it's getting close to sunset so must be keeping an eye on the electric bill now as they were always on a lot a few year's ago. Certainly with increased costs I've noticed lights on less a lot now which is a good thing.

 

[Deepgreen]

Or is it minus costs because they're not being switched on and off? Add in the costs of maintaining and repairing switching systems (light level detectors or whatever) and I suspect the savings start becoming minimal (remember - of those 24/7/365 the lights are going to be on a lot of the time anyway - not just at night but also on gloomy days. ) Any extra switching increases the risk of a complete failure of the lighting, to be avoided at (maybe not quite) all costs!

So, are we now sayng that it's not worth switching lights off in the daytime?! There is surely a serious flaw in an argument that favours/excuses having lights on when running them gives absolutely no benefits. As a society we are supposed to be getting more energy-conscious, not less (and I was brought up to turn off any unnecessary electrical equipment of any type)!

 

[Parallel]

I think the islands at Bristol Temple Meads are group switched, as when at the station at dusk, some of the islands switch on before others.

The lighting replacement under the canopy is still on going, there are still a number of older fluorescent fittings under the canopies in rather poor condition, being replaced by LED lighting. The day burning lanterns at the end of the platform may be as a result of the ongoing replacements elsewhere in the zone which may be set to test mode. I doubt it’s a permanent intention as they haven’t always been dayburning, but the works have been going on for a fairly long time now.

 

[Annetts key]

Or is it minus costs because they're not being switched on and off? Add in the costs of maintaining and repairing switching systems (light level detectors or whatever) and I suspect the savings start becoming minimal (remember - of those 24/7/365 the lights are going to be on a lot of the time anyway - not just at night but also on gloomy days. ) Any extra switching increases the risk of a complete failure of the lighting, to be avoided at (maybe not quite) all costs!

It's my considered opinion that the energy costs of having lighting on during daylight when not needed will be far more expensive than the cost of installing and maintaining suitable light sensors (such as an Ovia 10A Wall Mounted Electronic Photocell Kit IP44 - link to an example of one) and control gear (contactor - these vary in price depending on the contact rating, they range from around £60 excluding VAT to hundreds of pounds).

Here's a photo of the listing for the photocell I linked to above:

(image shows a photocell and it's price of £8.70 excluding VAT)

LED lighting units has completely different failure modes to other forms of lighting, well designed units should not have any significant reductions to their lifetime due to being switched on every day.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 May 2026 ==

I think the islands at Bristol Temple Meads are group switched, as when at the station at dusk, some of the islands switch on before others.

The lighting replacement under the canopy is still on going, there are still a number of older fluorescent fittings under the canopies in rather poor condition, being replaced by LED lighting. The day burning lanterns at the end of the platform may be as a result of the ongoing replacements elsewhere in the zone which may be set to test mode. I doubt it’s a permanent intention as they haven’t always been dayburning, but the works have been going on for a fairly long time now.

Because of the amount of power and because a three phase 400V system is used, the lighting will normally be switched on at slightly different times.

Further, electrically it may be easier to use separate sensors and control gear for each group of platforms.

The electrical work has been ongoing for must be around four years now...

 

[The exile]

It's my considered opinion that the energy costs of having lighting on during daylight when not needed will be far more expensive than the cost of installing and maintaining suitable light sensors

Of course “daylight hours” means something totally different out in the open to under a canopy. The glass replacement will definitely have helped, but we’ve just come out of a 4 year period where the lights under the train shed needed to be on at all times there were people in the station. On gloomy days, I suspect that to make provision for those with poor vision they still do (or at least some do) Not those out in the open air, though.

 

[edwin_m]

Of course “daylight hours” means something totally different out in the open to under a canopy. The glass replacement will definitely have helped, but we’ve just come out of a 4 year period where the lights under the train shed needed to be on at all times there were people in the station. On gloomy days, I suspect that to make provision for those with poor vision they still do (or at least some do) Not those out in the open air, though.

I was in Temple Meads around 6pm yesterday when it was indeed pretty gloomy. The lights in the main shed and under the canopies of platform 7 were lit, and certainly the latter would have been a bit dark for comfort without them. I had a tight connection so didn't have time to check any other parts of the station.

To my mind the shed, platform canopies and open air platform sections at Temple Meads ought to be switched separately, as the shed is now much brighter than the canopies and open air will be brightest of all. As suggested above, this would most likely be sub-divided between different parts of the station, to simplify the circuits and allow one part to be switched off for maintenance while others remain in use.