Platform heights

[jon0844]

I was wondering (for some time) why on the Northern City (FCC GN) line into Moorgate, considering the 313s have been using it exclusively for God knows how long, the platforms aren't raised? There's a pretty major step down from the train, and while the stations may be owned and run by London Underground, no tube train will ever stop on those platforms.

And when did the Victoria Line platform at King's Cross get two heights? Half of the platform is low, the other half raised to give level access. Will this be happening elsewhere? Seems like a sensible solution, as the rise is quite gradual.

 

[Turbostar]

The Northern City Line from Finsbury Park is owned by Network Rail, with the various stations along the route managed by either FCC, LUL, or NR, with FCC running the passenger services along the route:

Finsbury Park: FCC & LUL
Drayton Park: FCC
Highbury & Islington: LUL
Essex Road: FCC
Old Street: LUL
Moorgate: LUL

The 313's are the only units authorised & cleared to run the route.

 

[Mojo]

And when did the Victoria Line platform at King's Cross get two heights? Half of the platform is low, the other half raised to give level access. Will this be happening elsewhere? Seems like a sensible solution, as the rise is quite gradual.

I know they did it when the Waterloo & City was closed, but they only covered 1 door.

 

[jopsuk]

I've noticed in the pictures of the new Imperial Wharf station that there's a mahoosive step down from the trains on the outside of the corner from 378s. Given these will form the bulk of services there soon, with the rest being 377s which presumably have a similar floor height, why wasn't the platform height tailored a bit more to the floor height?

 

[Aictos]

I was wondering (for some time) why on the Northern City (FCC GN) line into Moorgate, considering the 313s have been using it exclusively for God knows how long

The 313s have been using the NCL since August 1976 when the lines to Moorgate using the City Widen Lines at Hotel Curve and York Road Curve closed.

Before 1976, part of King's Cross was an intermediate station. On the extreme east of the site was Kings Cross York Road, with suburban trains travelling south from Finsbury Park calling here, then going underground using the York Road curve to join the City Widened Lines to Farringdon, Barbican and Moorgate. In the other direction, trains from Moorgate came off the Widened Lines via the Hotel Curve, with platform 16 rising to the main line level. Services to and from Moorgate were diverted via the Northern City Line from August 1976.

 

[jon0844]

So they've had a while to consider the platform height then.

 

[poshbakerloo]

the UK has pretty good platform heights! I hate it when you go to any other country and they are sooo lazy!!! building them low level so you have to 'climb' onto the train!

 

[ian959]

the UK has pretty good platform heights! I hate it when you go to any other country and they are sooo lazy!!! building them low level so you have to 'climb' onto the train!

I would beg to differ on that point.

Even with the "mind the step" reminder, the number of times the step down off a UK train has nearly had me falling over because of the (serious lack of) platform height is amazing. Even at the same station, platform heights can vary quite significantly.

Perhaps I am just too used to our local trains where the gap down to the platform is never more than a few centimetres. Indeed, more than the odd platform is almost dead level with the door sill.

 

[turbo mick]

Hi guys

Weve never been able to stop at Taplow on the mains for years due to the platform height a bit of a drop the guards on our trains tend to anounce when we stop at dodgey platforms the gaps mainly


cheers

mick

 

[Bayum]

They say that at one of the stations on the WCML as well... I can't remember which one it was though... After Bolton... But before Carlisle...


But the platform drop was slightly huge!

 

[jon0844]

But the platform drop was slightly huge!

Is there actually a platform, or did the train stop short?

 

[Old Timer]

Within Railway Group Standards, there are very precise dimensions which apply to what is known as the "stepping distance" between the platform and the train, both in height and distance.

If the platform does not comply then trains which have stepping distances outside of these measurements LEGALLY are not permitted to stop there until a Derogation or Temporary Non Compliance has been given by the Railway Safety & Standards Board (Railway Safety)

 

[me123]

But the platform drop was slightly huge!

Dunkeld and Birnam has this problem on the Highland Mainline. Although I've never left the train there, it's always weird how low-down everyone on the platform seems! You can see this here, and note the yellow steps to make the gap easier.

I have no idea if the station is DDA complaint. I would imagine that the extremely low platform means that the ramp is at a very steep angle, and I don't know if it would be usable.

 

[Bayum]

Dunkeld and Birnam has this problem on the Highland Mainline. Although I've never left the train there, it's always weird how low-down everyone on the platform seems! You can see this here, and note the yellow steps to make the gap easier.

I have no idea if the station is DDA complaint. I would imagine that the extremely low platform means that the ramp is at a very steep angle, and I don't know if it would be usable.

i'm pretty sure it would... Might just need someone with a lot of pushing power!! Aha!!

And yeahh, there was a platform there. But it's like, I was on a 185 on the way up - and the dudette was like, "please be careful of the VERY steep drop between the train and platform edge" and then the train manager repeated it again as well

 

[Mojo]

Readers of this thread may be interested in the "Harrington Hump" which is being trialled as a low cost way of reducing the step between the train and the platform edge.

See: http://www.acorp.uk.com/news2.html

 

[Waddon]

It's not just smaller stations that have an issue with platform height, as anyone who's ever got off a train at East Croydon platform 2 will know! The gap there is just ridiculous for one of the busiest stations in London, especially at the London end where the track is more curved. I'm hoping it will be fixed as part of the Thameslink scheme, but who knows?

 

[Mojo]

Bristol Temple Meads platform 3 is particularly nasty with a 150.

 

[cyclebytrain]

They say that at one of the stations on the WCML as well... I can't remember which one it was though... After Bolton... But before Carlisle...


But the platform drop was slightly huge!

Probably Penrith, it does take some getting used to (the best method is hold rail with one hand, swing bag/bike onto platform, leaning out at a silly angle, then step down sideways). But having got used to Penrith, I now always seem to stumble when using normal platforms and people look at me like I'm drunk...

 

[2030720310]

Bristol Temple Meads platform 3 is particularly nasty with a 150.

Same with 150s at Worcester Shrub Hill and the gap with most things at Foregate Street is bad as well

 

[CMS]

They installed a 'Harrington' at St Albans Abbey but it has made some impact, but not a lot. I think one of the worst gaps ever for the NR is at Elephant & Castle platform 4 (trains to Bromley South via Denmark Hill and Peckham Rye). And for the LUL, it's Bank on the eastbound Central line, it's so dangerous!!!

 

[poshbakerloo]

I would beg to differ on that point.

Even with the "mind the step" reminder, the number of times the step down off a UK train has nearly had me falling over because of the (serious lack of) platform height is amazing. Even at the same station, platform heights can vary quite significantly.

Perhaps I am just too used to our local trains where the gap down to the platform is never more than a few centimetres. Indeed, more than the odd platform is almost dead level with the door sill.

Most of the gaps I have seen are width issues. And to be fair my local station (Prestbury) is served by 323s and the gap is quite big (14-20") but the height I think has always been fine...

 

[philjo]

A few of the stations on the Cambrian coast have very low platforms - I think Tywyn is one of them. There is a large step up to the train - somewhere in the region of 18" There are some wooden steps on the platform.

I visited Poole earlier this year which was on a tight curve & the door had a very large gap between it & the platform edge.
Not so much a problem for coaching stock with the doors at the ends (most of the units on that line are like this), though the guard's/luggage area door was mid-way down the coach so the gap to the platform edge must have been nearly 2 feet.
I was glad not be trying to load/unload luggage on that occasion!

 

[Old Timer]

A few of the stations on the Cambrian coast have very low platforms - I think Tywyn is one of them. There is a large step up to the train - somewhere in the region of 18" There are some wooden steps on the platform.

I visited Poole earlier this year which was on a tight curve & the door had a very large gap between it & the platform edge.
Not so much a problem for coaching stock with the doors at the ends (most of the units on that line are like this), though the guard's/luggage area door was mid-way down the coach so the gap to the platform edge must have been nearly 2 feet.
I was glad not be trying to load/unload luggage on that occasion!

A slight exageration I feel ?

 

[philjo]

Possibly, but in the case of Poole someone was trying to unload a pushchair & the gap was about the same width as the pushchair - so it was not possible to transfer one set of wheels at a time from train to platform as the front wheels would not reach the platform from the train. It required 2 people - one on the train & one on the platform to lift it down.

 

[Crossforth]

I can't remember where, but somewhere on the LU, I got on a train and had to step DOWN to get off the platform and onto the train

 

[jopsuk]

That's common on the sections where "tube" Underground trains share platforms with "sub surface" or even mainline trains. The floor height if the tube trains is rather low! At the same platforms, it will usually be a fair step up to the other trains

 

[royaloak]

Possibly, but in the case of Poole someone was trying to unload a pushchair & the gap was about the same width as the pushchair - so it was not possible to transfer one set of wheels at a time from train to platform as the front wheels would not reach the platform from the train. It required 2 people - one on the train & one on the platform to lift it down.

Or get off first and bring the puch chair out backwards, much safer.

 

[O L Leigh]

It is a tricky balancing act, especially on curved platforms and for stock where the doors are nowhere near the bogie centres. If you make the gap small so that it is convenient, there is a risk of a train striking a platform edge which will mean that the permitted speed through the platform has to be reduced.

It's much easier when you build a new station from scratch because you can place it almost wherever you like to ensure that all the necessary rules and requirements are met. Unfortunately, most stations were built by the Victorians who didn't mind so much. Therefore we are left with a big problem that is difficult to solve.

O L Leigh

 

[Z12XE]

Readers of this thread may be interested in the "Harrington Hump" which is being trialled as a low cost way of reducing the step between the train and the platform edge.

That solution is nothing new the correct name should be the Marks Tey Bumps - We had them there in 2002 (and looking at the demo model at Carlisle last month its made from exactly the same stuff) although the ones at Marks Tey were bridge gaps rather than just raise platform level.

With them in place 66s and 35005 Canadian Pacific could get past!

 

[Surreytraveller]

The 313's are the only units authorised & cleared to run the route.

Presumably because they are the only units fitted with tripcocks?