Platform extensions question

[ATTERO_ATTERO]

Hi all I am going to try and make this short but I am hoping someone can settle a dispute I am having.

I am a Controller of Site Safety (COSS) working on platform extensions, we have the operational side sectioned off to stop public whilst we are building the platform up.

I have had a manager from a company turn up and tell me that next week he and his staff, who have no PTS (Personal Track Safety) and no Track Visitor Permit (TVP), planned to work on the extensions placing lighting columns in.

Can someone please tell me are they allowed to work in that section without a TVP, as long as they stay 1.25m from the edge (which isn't my Safe System of Work; it's currently fenced) to me they are on or near the line as it is not operational and a ssow must be in place?

If someone can enlighten me on the situation or actually show me what the rule is I would appreciate it

Thanks

Joe

 

[Steve Harris]

I think PTS is personal track safety, and ssow is Safe System of Work (which is widely used in 'elf and safety).

 

[ATTERO_ATTERO]

I think PTS is personal track safety, and ssow is Safe System of Work (which is widely used in 'elf and safety).

Yes that's correct it is TVP is a track visitors permit but as I replied to the person below its just said PTS etc
The question is for railway workers who will know because even the course is called PTS course

 

[alex17595]

Don't take it as gospel but I believe they will not need a PTS card.

Heres a screenshot from a PTS handbook from 2013.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Hi all I am going to try and make this short but I am hoping someone can settle a dispute I am having.

I am a COSS working on platform extensions, we have the operational side sectioned off to stop public whilst we are building the platform up.

I have had a manager from a company turn up and tell me that next week he and his staff who have no PTS or no TVP planned to work on the extensions placing lighting columns in.

Can someone please tell me are they allowed to work in that section without a TVP as long as they stay 1.25m from the edge (which isn't my ssow it's currently fenced) to me they are on or near the line as it is not operational and a ssow must be in place?

If someone can enlighten me on the situation or actually show me what the rule is I would appreciate it

Thanks

Joe

I think you need to get in touch with your local union rep or manager to discuss this further. Consensus by public forum does not make a safe railway.

 

[Annetts key]

That’s covered by the railway rule book, General safety responsibilities and personal track safety for non-track workers, GERT8000-G1

Section 6 Trackside definitions

Which is available from https://www.rssb.co.uk/standards-catalogue/CatalogueItem/gert8000-g1-iss-9-1

You do need to register to use this site.

However, if they will be entering your work site, it is up to the person in charge of that work site on if they are allowed in. As a minimum, they must be briefed on the safe systems of work, and have an understanding of any safety risks, both from any work taking place in the work site as well as their own. Plus any risks to any other person that may be caused by the work they are doing.

 

[twpsaesneg]

Hi all I am going to try and make this short but I am hoping someone can settle a dispute I am having.

I am a Controller of Site Safety (COSS) working on platform extensions, we have the operational side sectioned off to stop public whilst we are building the platform up.

I have had a manager from a company turn up and tell me that next week he and his staff, who have no PTS (Personal Track Safety) and no Track Visitor Permit (TVP), planned to work on the extensions placing lighting columns in.

Can someone please tell me are they allowed to work in that section without a TVP, as long as they stay 1.25m from the edge (which isn't my Safe System of Work; it's currently fenced) to me they are on or near the line as it is not operational and a ssow must be in place?

If someone can enlighten me on the situation or actually show me what the rule is I would appreciate it

Thanks

Joe

If the platforms aren't operational yet, then IMHO they can't apply the 1.25m rule. If they are trying to say they are then there is a newish NR standard NR/L2/OHS/00130 which covers working in areas segregated from the railway which does allow non PTS holders but with various safeguards needing to be applied. I am both a COSS and a Core Planner.

I would raise the issue with your management / planning team if you have doubts and if you get nowhere involve CIRAS. https://www.ciras.org.uk/en

 

[td97]

Can someone please tell me are they allowed to work in that section without a TVP, as long as they stay 1.25m from the edge (which isn't my Safe System of Work; it's currently fenced) to me they are on or near the line as it is not operational and a ssow must be in place?

I would expect this falls in the category of "lineside", as it is outside the region defined as on/near the line, but inside the railway boundary and also the workers will be visible to drivers of passing trains.

They should have a site team leader, who is not you (you are there as a COSS to oversee the safety of your own work group who are presumably on or near the line).

They should have (signed and valid) a work package plan AND task brief sheet AND construction phase plan.

If they turn up without any of this, it is an Operational Close Call which should be reported.

 

[mr_moo]

The issue will be managed by the SFO - "Station Facilities Operator". Whichever organisation has overall responsability for the station needs to control access to that station, and will need to accept whatever system of work that contractor puts in place.
Thus, the SFO would be the first point of call. They will have someone whose job it is to accept these plans and authorise people to work on their station platform. I know as I've got to go through this system when I want to work on any platform.
You can find out the SFO through national rail. For example, my local station is Swindon, so looking at https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/SWI/details.html, you see "Managed by Great Western Railway" under the station name. That's who to address initially.
If it's a staffed station, there shoud be a management or control office somewhere, although it might be a little hidden away. Ask any of the station staff where the "duty manager" is and they should be able to guide you further to the correct person to talk to and raise the issue with.

The above applies regardless of whether you're working on on near the line etc, which is defined as within 1.25m of the platform edge as per the rule book.

As others have said, you can also go to CIRAS if you're not comfortable going to the station office.