Platform Departure Information - Manchester Piccadilly (13 and 14)

[joke2711]

Travelled back from Manchester towards Chester on Sunday Evening after the Speedway of Nations at Belle Vue.

On arrival at Platform 13/14 concourse, the 1957 to Chester was showing as 4 minutes late to depart at 2001. This was the same time as a 2001 to Blackpool North which was also stopping at Deansgate and would subsequently delay the Chester train further. The departure boards indicated that the Chester train would follow the Blackpool North train into Platform 14. Actually quite impressed with the overall layout and instructions.

However, as the Blackpool North train was coming from the Airport, it seemed bizarre that it was being pathed in front of the TFW service to Chester which was being turned around.

At 1955, there was an announcement that that the train arriving at Platform 14 was the 1957 to Chester. We made our way down the escalators, the train was at Platform and it departed on time.

The train was nearly empty and it had us wondering whether many passengers would have missed the service. It has been showing as a 2001 departure for some considerable time and whilst it was good that the train departed on time .. it had us wondering whether the misinformation presented was a factor in this.

This isn't a moan .. just out of intrigue and interested in whether departure board information should both trusted and also how such a delay was identified. A quick check on RTT showed the incoming Chester service delayed on arrival by 4 minutes in to Platform 13 (which may be the reason). However common sense dictates that this wouldn't cause a delay to the return service at a quiet time on a Sunday Evening ..

Any expert opinion would be welcomed ...

 

[30907]

As you surmise, the anticipated +4 start must have been carried over from the +4 arrival - as the train reverses in Mayfield Loop it was easily able to recover the delay, so it seems an odd assumption for the system (or a human) to make.

I can't see an obvious reason for it to be listed second, though, because the Airport-Blackpool was also a couple of minutes late.

 

[40129]

I remember being caught short, in more ways than one, at Chester a couple of years ago.

My train was shown as running 10-15 minutes late so I used the bathroom on the station rather than waiting to go on the train. Was part way thru when I heard the train rumbling passed the bathroom having somehow made up the time. That taught me to be very wary of trusting the expected departure time at majpr stations where there may be make up time

 

[Llandudno]

I remember being caught short, in more ways than one, at Chester a couple of years ago.

My train was shown as running 10-15 minutes late so I used the bathroom on the station rather than waiting to go on the train. Was part way thru when I heard the train rumbling passed the bathroom having somehow made up the time. That taught me to be very wary of trusting the expected departure time at majpr stations where there may be make up time

Some TfW trains have a 10-15 minute dwell time at Chester, so on occasions the train can arrive 10+ minutes late and then depart more or less on time.

 

[josla1]

Travelled back from Manchester towards Chester on Sunday Evening after the Speedway of Nations at Belle Vue.

On arrival at Platform 13/14 concourse, the 1957 to Chester was showing as 4 minutes late to depart at 2001. This was the same time as a 2001 to Blackpool North which was also stopping at Deansgate and would subsequently delay the Chester train further. The departure boards indicated that the Chester train would follow the Blackpool North train into Platform 14. Actually quite impressed with the overall layout and instructions.

However, as the Blackpool North train was coming from the Airport, it seemed bizarre that it was being pathed in front of the TFW service to Chester which was being turned around.

At 1955, there was an announcement that that the train arriving at Platform 14 was the 1957 to Chester. We made our way down the escalators, the train was at Platform and it departed on time.

The train was nearly empty and it had us wondering whether many passengers would have missed the service. It has been showing as a 2001 departure for some considerable time and whilst it was good that the train departed on time .. it had us wondering whether the misinformation presented was a factor in this.

This isn't a moan .. just out of intrigue and interested in whether departure board information should both trusted and also how such a delay was identified. A quick check on RTT showed the incoming Chester service delayed on arrival by 4 minutes in to Platform 13 (which may be the reason). However common sense dictates that this wouldn't cause a delay to the return service at a quiet time on a Sunday Evening ..

Any expert opinion would be welcomed ...

From experience, occasionally the xx:57 would of been showing as a 5D headcode from the loop to P14 so until that headcode is changed from the signal box it will show as a late departure and then change instantly once the correct headcode is assigned. The screens in the satellite lounge run off that information.

 

[30907]

From experience, occasionally the xx:57 would of been showing as a 5D headcode from the loop to P14 so until that headcode is changed from the signal box it will show as a late departure and then change instantly once the correct headcode is assigned.

Thanks. The times at Mayfield don't get input into the system then?

 

[LRV3004]

Looks like the departure screens were indeed creating a projected departure time due to the empties to form the Chester service initially leaving late from Piccadilly……..

Realtime Trains - 5D40 1938 Manchester Piccadilly to Manchester Piccadilly

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[timothyw9]

Network RAIL/ DARWIN/ Whatever system the DFT choose to use, really should use some sort of machine learning or AI in this day and age. To a human given the relevant information, it would be assumed that the service is most likely to depart on time. Unfortunately with a system that is somewhat GIGO, this can happen.

 

[A Challenge]

Network RAIL/ DARWIN/ Whatever system the DFT choose to use, really should use some sort of machine learning or AI in this day and age. To a human given the relevant information, it would be assumed that the service is most likely to depart on time. Unfortunately with a system that is somewhat GIGO, this can happen.

Surely the system could quite easily be told to ignore the given dwell time and assume in this case maybe 5 minutes when calculating based off a late arrival?

 

[childwallblues]

Travelled back from Manchester towards Chester on Sunday Evening after the Speedway of Nations at Belle Vue.

On arrival at Platform 13/14 concourse, the 1957 to Chester was showing as 4 minutes late to depart at 2001. This was the same time as a 2001 to Blackpool North which was also stopping at Deansgate and would subsequently delay the Chester train further. The departure boards indicated that the Chester train would follow the Blackpool North train into Platform 14. Actually quite impressed with the overall layout and instructions.

However, as the Blackpool North train was coming from the Airport, it seemed bizarre that it was being pathed in front of the TFW service to Chester which was being turned around.

At 1955, there was an announcement that that the train arriving at Platform 14 was the 1957 to Chester. We made our way down the escalators, the train was at Platform and it departed on time.

The train was nearly empty and it had us wondering whether many passengers would have missed the service. It has been showing as a 2001 departure for some considerable time and whilst it was good that the train departed on time .. it had us wondering whether the misinformation presented was a factor in this.

This isn't a moan .. just out of intrigue and interested in whether departure board information should both trusted and also how such a delay was identified. A quick check on RTT showed the incoming Chester service delayed on arrival by 4 minutes in to Platform 13 (which may be the reason). However common sense dictates that this wouldn't cause a delay to the return service at a quiet time on a Sunday Evening ..

Any expert opinion would be welcomed ...

If passengers are not on the platform they are usually in the lounge upstairs. They are normally advised to go to platform in good time.

 

[CAF397]

Surely the system could quite easily be told to ignore the given dwell time and assume in this case maybe 5 minutes when calculating based off a late arrival?

I frequently fly with BA. 24 hours before I fly I often get an alert in my app about late departures. This will be because the rostered plane has picked up delays in its schedules, which will usually be eroded within the 24 hours, but the 'system' recalculates all schedules following.

 

[OxtedL]

Network RAIL/ DARWIN/ Whatever system the DFT choose to use, really should use some sort of machine learning or AI in this day and age. To a human given the relevant information, it would be assumed that the service is most likely to depart on time. Unfortunately with a system that is somewhat GIGO, this can happen.

The data is way too poor quality, and there is far too little of it, for machine learning to be effective here.