Platform 0 (Was Platform Y) at King's Cross

[jon0844]

The other day I saw the Network Rail pictures of the new King's Cross station and see that they're definitely going ahead with the 'Platform Y' idea.. showing a sign 'Platforms 1-8 & Y', which just seems stupid!

Does this make 'Y' something super special, and will the announcer say 'Platform number Y' like St Pancras does for A & B?

Why not just change all the platform numbers so it's 1-9 and 10-12?

Is it for the tourists who will get confused? Well, they wouldn't remember anyway would they?
Is it for the commuters who will get confused? Well, they will for the very first time and then never again.
Is it for the irregular traveller that goes to King's Cross only once a year? Well, like the commuter, they'll get confused once - or maybe not even remember what it was like before.

I seriously don't understand the need for an 'odd' platform number (besides 9 3/4! - which would actually fit perfectly between 9 and 10 then!) as the station is going to be looking all new, and that's the perfect time to change things around.

Or is there another reason, namely the way the schedulers plan things and the confusion from a signalling point of view?

 

[CCF23]

I'm pretty sure they were going to call it Platform 0.

 

[yorkie]

It will be to save money on changing the signalling. These days almost all signals before stations have 'theatre' type displays that show the platform number. Adding a new platform is relatively easy but changing them is, apparently, mega-difficult.

 

[jon0844]

I wonder what people will think about Platform Y - and why Y, because it's near York Way?? Platform 0 may be a little more sensible, but still odd.

 

[GB]

I dont see why that cant call the platform by a normal number but brief drivers what the "Y" in the theatre box actually means. Unless of course there is some group or industry standard somewhere preventing this.

 

[Aictos]

I agree with the OP that the new platform should be called Platform 1 then the current Platform 1 becoming Platform 2 etc...

So Platforms 1 to 9 would be in the main shed and Platforms 10 to 12 would be in the suburban shed.


But while we're on about platforms, let's talk about St Pancras as well as it's close by...

If they built St Pancras Low Level ie the FCC platforms as 2 island platforms like Biggleswade, Stevenage, St Neots, Alexandra Palace etc instead of just two single platforms then that in itself would help the capacity of the station especially when you're going to have 24 trains per hour going though there which might only be in the peak with some luck but get any delays and the service will be well and truly screwed with the current layout.

 

[Fuzzy Logic]

I agree with the OP that the new platform should be called Platform 1 then the current Platform 1 becoming Platform 2 etc...

So Platforms 1 to 9 would be in the main shed and Platforms 10 to 12 would be in the suburban shed.


But while we're on about platforms, let's talk about St Pancras as well as it's close by...

If they built St Pancras Low Level ie the FCC platforms as 2 island platforms like Biggleswade, Stevenage, St Neots, Alexandra Palace etc instead of just two single platforms then that in itself would help the capacity of the station especially when you're going to have 24 trains per hour going though there which might only be in the peak with some luck but get any delays and the service will be well and truly screwed with the current layout.

I guess there's a problem with space and cost - digging tunnel in the middle of London ain't cheap. Also, afaik, the tunnels have been dug for the link between St Pancras Low level to the Great Northern already, with the junction being grade separated. If this is the case then I would imagine having 4 platforms over 2 would have negligible impact.

With the train frequencies as high as they are, and stations close together, a delay will cause knock-on delays pretty quickly regardless

 

[philjo]

I did read somewhere that it was proposed to possibly renumber all the platforms in st pancras & kings cross eventually (probably when the GN services connect into the StP low level platforms) so that the platforms all had unique numbers (ie. 1-12 in KX & 13 onwards in St Pancras)
that would help the FCC services where some would run from StP low Level & the other fast cambridge/Kings Lynn trains will still use KX.

 

[A60K]

The continental way of doing it would probably be something like 1-9 for KX main shed, 11-13 for KX suburban, 21-26 for St Pancras international main shed, 31-37 for St P domestic 'extension', 41-42 for St P low level. That way groups of platforms with a common entrance share a similar numbering group.

 

[MCR247]

What happened to 14-20? :?

 

[90019]

What happened to 14-20? :?

They escaped.

 

[87015]

What happened to 14-20? :?

As he said, its the continental way of doing things, have platforms grouped together (ie the 0s, 10s and 20s) with gaps if need be, quite useful to allow for expansion/renumbering aswell that way...

 

[jon0844]

I think the idea is that each section is a new block of 10. Seems logical enough - but there's absolutely no place for common sense or logic in the UK!

As I said above, doing it platform 1-9 and then 10-12 has the added benefit of making it logical having 9 3/4 where it is (or roughly in that area when the station is finished).

 

[me123]

...but if we said that, then people would start moaning that there's no Platforms 14-20, and that is isn't logical! You can't win.

Platform 0 is probably the most sensible option in my opinion. Haymarket station has one, albeit to allow for engineering works at Edinburgh Waverley, so it's rarely used now but still there. Plenty of other stations in the same situation, including I believe Cardiff Central and Stockport, have this as well. People are, on the whole, pretty used to it so it wouldn't be too bad an idea, and it would avoid the confusion caused by renumbering the whole station.

 

[90019]

Platform 0 is probably the most sensible option in my opinion. Haymarket station has one, albeit to allow for engineering works at Edinburgh Waverley, so it's rarely used now but still there.

I hadn't noticed that until saturday, when there was an FTPE 185 sitting there.

 

[DJ_K666]

They escaped.

I think I saw them crawling off up the road the other day making a strange drooling noise lol

 

[Mojo]

Also don't some countries use 'tracks' instead of platforms? I was most confused when arriving into (what I thought was) "platform 47" at a small 3 platform station outside Berlin!

 

[EM2]

The continental way of doing it would probably be something like 1-9 for KX main shed, 11-13 for KX suburban, 21-26 for St Pancras international main shed, 31-37 for St P domestic 'extension', 41-42 for St P low level. That way groups of platforms with a common entrance share a similar numbering group.

So you'd split platforms 31-37, with 31-33 on one side of the station, 34-37 on the other side, with 21-26 in between? :???:
People can't follow the signs that are there now!

 

[me123]

Also don't some countries use 'tracks' instead of platforms? I was most confused when arriving into (what I thought was) "platform 47" at a small 3 platform station outside Berlin!

Similarly, people coming to the UK have problems. "I'm looking for platform 3, but there're two trains there! Which track is it?". Bit I think that they should be consistent in the UK and retain the system which has worked here for years and that we know best.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I hadn't noticed that until saturday, when there was an FTPE 185 sitting there.

It was designed for the engineering works at Edinburgh Waverley when lots of trains were turning around at Haymarket. Now that the works have finished, the platform is officially redundant. But I have seen it used to turn back trains to minimise delays; screens at Waverley will advise passengers that the train will start on time from Platform 0 at Haymarket and get them to catch a train out there. I've seen it twice, both on the Edinburgh-Glasgow shuttle services, presumably to minimise know on delays.

 

[A60K]

Also don't some countries use 'tracks' instead of platforms? I was most confused when arriving into (what I thought was) "platform 47" at a small 3 platform station outside Berlin!

That's correct - Switzerland/Germany use 'Gleis' (track) to designate platform faces, so that if you have through lines between platforms, such as at Peterborough, then you would have a gap in the platform numbering. Platforms are further divided into 'Sektor' letters, typically A-D or A-F, and the departures indicator will tell you exactly where to wait for 1st, 2nd and restaurant cars.

However, when you get to the Czech Republic and some other Central and Eastern European countries, you'll find that a platform face has both a platform (as the the island that you wait on) and a track number! It's a long while since I was there, but I think they designate the platform with an Arabic number (e.g. 4) and the track with a Roman number (e.g. II). And they also have sector lettering, meaning your regional train to Usti might depart from Platform 3, Track II, Sector C precisely

 

[MCR247]

I think Haymarket Pl.0 was used for Fife services, and would run EDB-HYM via fife, and rtn

 

[Mojo]

Similarly, people coming to the UK have problems. "I'm looking for platform 3, but there're two trains there! Which track is it?". Bit I think that they should be consistent in the UK and retain the system which has worked here for years and that we know best.

I don't doubt what you're saying, but I don't quite understand. Are you saying that on an island platform, some people think "platform 3" could be either side of the platform?

It's interesting how they choose to number platforms as 'tracks.' In this case, the majority of the 'tracks' were actually sidings rather than through lines.

 

[tbtc]

That's correct - Switzerland/Germany use 'Gleis' (track) to designate platform faces, so that if you have through lines between platforms, such as at Peterborough, then you would have a gap in the platform numbering. Platforms are further divided into 'Sektor' letters, typically A-D or A-F, and the departures indicator will tell you exactly where to wait for 1st, 2nd and restaurant cars.

However, when you get to the Czech Republic and some other Central and Eastern European countries, you'll find that a platform face has both a platform (as the the island that you wait on) and a track number! It's a long while since I was there, but I think they designate the platform with an Arabic number (e.g. 4) and the track with a Roman number (e.g. II). And they also have sector lettering, meaning your regional train to Usti might depart from Platform 3, Track II, Sector C precisely

Here it's impressive if they bother to tell you which end First Class will be at; telling passengers exactly where to stand for each coach is far too "customer focused" for the UK railways

 

[EM2]

Here it's impressive if they bother to tell you which end First Class will be at; telling passengers exactly where to stand for each coach is far too "customer focused" for the UK railways

If they know, of course. If you're waiting for a train coming in, how on earth are station staff supposed to know?

 

[Mojo]

If they know, of course. If you're waiting for a train coming in, how on earth are station staff supposed to know?

Well exactly, it's not possible to find out for every train but for some you could look it up on TRUST if that's part of your job.

 

[johnb]

And TRUST tells you the type of stock, its length and which way round it's pointing...?

 

[Mojo]

And TRUST tells you the type of stock, its length and which way round it's pointing...?

I don't know about all stock, but for example if you wanted to find out the formation for a Voyager, then yes you could.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

What happened to 14-20? :?

Well what about the Underground platforms, 2x Piccadilly, 2x Northern and 2x Victoria and an Island SSL Platform?

 

[Aictos]

I don't know about all stock, but for example if you wanted to find out the formation for a Voyager, then yes you could.

Yes to a certain point, I can see a journey from A to B and what traction it's booked as but as a example it just says Sprinter which could be anything from a 153 to a 159 so unless you know beforehand you wouldn't know!

Unless of course the TOC has decided to pay out for TOPS access as well which in NXEC's case, you can indeed find out what the exact formation and the numbers for the carriages, DVT and Clas 91 and what way round it is.

I know we used to have it (TOPS) but we don't as it got taken out years ago as a cost cutting measure.

Still we have TRUST and P2 so between the pair of them, it tells us basically what the train should be.

 

[Mojo]

Unless of course the TOC has decided to pay out for TOPS access as well which in NXEC's case, you can indeed find out what the exact formation and the numbers for the carriages, DVT and Clas 91 and what way round it is.

Yeah that's what I was talking about, it's got the carriage numbers from which you can work out my formation.