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Planned Manchester-Paris Overnight Train

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ukrob

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Can I also point out people do fine on aircraft with no beds having myself done several 26 hour (Manchester-Amsterdam-Hong Kong-Sydney) and 23 hour (Manchester-London-Singapore-Sydney) flights to visit relatives in the same seat, what you really need is a shower and a place to freshen up in the morning.

Not really the point is it?

We are discussing a potential sleeper service which will take five hours overnight. I would expect a bed for that if the whole point of it is to arrived fresh and ready for a days work. Otherwise you might as well just fly in the morning having in slept in your own bed, for less money in a fifth of the time.

People are very rosey-eyed about sleepers.

The facts are that they have been radically cut all over Europe over the last 15 years.
 
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Greenback

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Rail enthusiasts are very rosey eyed about sleepers! To the rest of the population they are pretty much an irrelevance unless they serve a useful purpose in terms of saving time or money!

Overnight ferry services to the continent have been cut back, and those that remain cater mostly for motorists. They offer beds, and they also offer the convenience of cutting out a lot of driving for many destinations. A few foot passengers find them convenient and worthwhile, but they could not survive on that traffic alone.

Hmmm, I find myself coming to the conclusion that the Manchester - Paris proposals are a bit of a non starter!
 

Peter Mugridge

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But, ukrob, it's not a Sleeper - the proposal is a "sit up all night" service in a NoL class 373...!!
 

LexyBoy

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Overnight ferry services to the continent have been cut back, and those that remain cater mostly for motorists. They offer beds, and they also offer the convenience of cutting out a lot of driving for many destinations. A few foot passengers find them convenient and worthwhile, but they could not survive on that traffic alone.

Hmm, maybe a Motorail type solution could work? Of course, it would have to be cheap enough to tempt people out of driving across the UK, but might be better than going after passengers alone? After all, drivers would already be looking at shelling out quite a bit on a chunnel/ferry crossing, and I'd think the NW to Dover would be a particularly slow drive.

I'd guess the restrictions on freight going through the chunnel aren't as strict as for e.g. Eurostar (judging by how often they catch fire <D), so perhaps existing stock could be used (if it still exists), though it may have to be separated from the passenger section.

My first thought was that 5.5 hours is absurdly short for an overnight trip - leaving at a sensible time like 2300 would get you in Paris at 0530 (0430 UK time) and likely just as tired as if you'd got a very early flight. Why not run it during the day - e.g. 0730 dep which would get you to Paris for lunchtime?
 

Greenback

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)My first thought was that 5.5 hours is absurdly short for an overnight trip - leaving at a sensible time like 2300 would get you in Paris at 0530 (0430 UK time) and likely just as tired as if you'd got a very early flight. Why not run it during the day - e.g. 0730 dep which would get you to Paris for lunchtime?

The timings ar enot attractive, except possibly for those wanting an early train out of Paris! But how big is that market?!

Perhaps the economics might stack up better as a through train to the Alps, or the South of France, calling at Birmingham for the West Midlands, London and Paris. Now, I'd quite fancy travelling ovenright to marseille, or Basel! (But possibly not many other people would!)
 
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Can I also point out people do fine on aircraft with no beds having myself done several 26 hour (Manchester-Amsterdam-Hong Kong-Sydney) and 23 hour (Manchester-London-Singapore-Sydney) flights to visit relatives in the same seat, what you really need is a shower and a place to freshen up in the morning.

You're probably still relatively young. Try it when you're 60+, you'll think differently.
 

Greenback

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Not sure if it's a problem for older people as such. My aunt used to fly once or twice a year on Air New Zealand to and from Auckland to see relatives when she was in her late 70's and early 80's.
 
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