Planes grounded, special train requirements?

[jon0844]

They weren't today. I saw loads of EC trains today and most had many seats on show. This was between 1245 and 1700.

I made a point of looking. Likewise, FCC had trains running near empty so if you really were unable to use EC or Virgin, I am sure you could have made your way using a combination of trains. Yes, it would take ages - but there was certainly no shortage of seats whatever you did.

 

[attics26]

They weren't today. I saw loads of EC trains today and most had many seats on show. This was between 1245 and 1700.

I made a point of looking. Likewise, FCC had trains running near empty so if you really were unable to use EC or Virgin, I am sure you could have made your way using a combination of trains. Yes, it would take ages - but there was certainly no shortage of seats whatever you did.

wonder where they all got off cos most today full and standing leaving Darlington - (worked 1030-1730)

 

[A60K]

If that's true, why have all the trains been full to standing.

To be honest, they're not. Leaving Euston on Friday evening for Wigan, on a train continuing to Glasgow, there were around 10% of seats free and a significant number of those passengers got off at Warrington or Wigan. That's little different to normal, especially considering it's the end of the Easter school holidays for some parts of the country. Granted, it could have got busier at Preston, but I doubt that it did - and those wouldn't be displaced airline passengers anyway.

Travelling to Edinburgh on Saturday on TPE it was no different to normal, and leaving Edinburgh this afternoon it was the same.

There have been a some extra trains and others extended or lengthened on both the ECML and WCML, and I think the capacity has been adequate, certainly on the services I've travelled on.

 

[jon0844]

wonder where they all got off cos most today full and standing leaving Darlington - (worked 1030-1730)

Don't know! All I can say is what I saw looking through the windows.

Did EC put on more trains today? When waiting for a FCC service, an EC train came through on the slow line while a Grand Central train went on the fast. Or was it simply late and being moved out of the way?

 

[flymo]

Whilst watching the Wigan vs Arsenal game last night the commentator mentioned that as there were no flights, the Arsenal team 'Chartered their own train' to get them to the North west for the game instead. Any idea what this was all about, i.e. a special train or just taking over one carriage on a normal service?

Just curious really.

 

[transportphoto]

According to my local travel update there is not going to be any flights in the UK Air-Space until atleast 1900 tonight.

 

[yorkie]

HMS Ark Royal is on her way to take stranded passengers, so some very lucky people will get Paxman Valenta haulage across the channel!!

Source: BBC News
"The ships HMS Ark Royal, HMS Ocean and HMS Albion are heading for Spain and unspecified Channel ports. "

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Ark Royal has the Rolls Royce Olympus ( similar to Concorde ) gas turbines as her main engines doesn't she? The Valentas are just for electricity generation?

And given that both Queen Mary 2 and Queen Victoria are due at Southampton shortly, I wonder if they will get requisitioned for this sea shuttle operation? There are certainly rumours to that effect in marintime circles...

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

Was in Kings Cross (9am and just before 5pm) yesterday and it was suprisingly quiet. Liverpool Street (1pm) also seemed pretty dead.
Different story for Victoria Coach station (3pm - 5.30pm) though...

 

[jon0844]

King's Cross wasn't particularly busy, but St Pancras was! Police and camera crews probably made up quite a sizable number though!!

 

[Big Chris]

I travelled on the 12noon ish Bangor to Birmingham International and the 1415 Llandudno Junction to Bangor today both were 2x158 and were full to the brim with people. The 12.24 Bangor to Euston stuffed when it arrived at Llandudno Junction. That was a 5-car voyager. Arriva seem to be doing a god job at supplying the ferries with enough capacity. People I spoke to were heading to airports to retrieve their cars or trying to get home after being stuck of several days. One family with a toddler said the ferries were hell; packed to the brim. From what I've seen pass the house most of the 158's are doubled up, where have they been taken from, has the Cambrian had its service cut?

 

[northwichcat]

They've possibly downgraded Crewe-Chester to a 150 and put 153s on either Conway Valley or Borderlands to have 150s for Crewe-Chetsre.

 

[silentone]

East Coast wasn't that busy over the weekend, Southbound services were quite busy as most people were trying to leave the country via Ports & Eurostar. Going North most people are stuck in other countries so there were some sizeable chunks of no-show's.

Monday morning was very busy as you would expect as business travellers all switched to rail. 0550 & 0600 leaving Edinburgh were both near to full by Newcastle. The additional 0530 extended service was virtually empty.

The same story going north, most Newcastle & Scottish services leaving Kings Cross from 9am were fully reserved, with only 1 or 2 no-show's.

 

[mindfeeder]

Saw a few more trains at Coventry yesterday, mainly Pendos. Was nice to see but didn't make up for the fact my trip to New York with uni was cancelled because of this silly ash cloud. :-x

 

[chuffchuff]

Chatting to the Ticket office chap this morning, he stayed open last
night, from 1am to 6am sold £18,000 of tickets, plus whatever the
two conductors took to keep the queues down.
So if you're going to London on the first ones from Dover, don't bother
as they're packed before they leave

 

[Geezertronic]

Saw a few more trains at Coventry yesterday, mainly Pendos. Was nice to see but didn't make up for the fact my trip to New York with uni was cancelled because of this silly ash cloud. :-x

I didn't think there were any additional Euston-Birmingham(Wolverhampton) trains?

 

[Bedpan]

Seems to me that the national rail system is managing to cope with the extra demand, the real bottleneck seems to be getting across the Channel. I would have thought that Eurotunnel could have been more to help - wouldn't a Shuttle train carrying foot passengers through the tunnel clear the backlog fairly quickly. People could make their way to Calais or Folkestone, and have buses laid on to and from the tunnel terminals.

Also wouldn't using one or two steam or classic diesel locos be a marvellous p r exercise, it would be sure to get on the news if used on a secondary line to free up stock for he more crowded routes.

 

[jon0844]

I saw on Sky News (website) that Gordon Brown had said he was trying to get the train companies to run more trains.

Now, it seems to me that Virgin and EC (and possibly others) jumped in very quick to put on extra services - and I am not sure if Gordon had any involvement or simply wants to be credited for something he had NOTHING to do with.

I'd hate for people to simply think that the 'greedy' train operators were 'forced' to run extra services.

Anyone know the truth?

 

[Geezertronic]

If anyone, it would have been Lord Adonis who would have spoken to the TOCs, although from the very little media reporting there has been they seemed to sort it out themselves with NR

 

[Failed Unit]

I saw on Sky News (website) that Gordon Brown had said he was trying to get the train companies to run more trains.

Now, it seems to me that Virgin and EC (and possibly others) jumped in very quick to put on extra services - and I am not sure if Gordon had any involvement or simply wants to be credited for something he had NOTHING to do with.

I'd hate for people to simply think that the 'greedy' train operators were 'forced' to run extra services.

Anyone know the truth?

Judging by the past the just implemented plans on thier own initative. GNER did something similar the fog hit Heathow a few years back.

Extension of many of the services is just messing with diagrams, ie 1630 & 1830 & 1900 run on Fridays anyway so wasnt that hard to sort out. The spot hire of the XC HST to run the additional service was done very quickly but I doubt the government had anything to do with it! I am sure the have made money. Likewise Virgin have used tried and tested paths and using the 90's.

Not taking anything away from them they have done a good job - but using tried and tested things (bank holiday timetables).

 

[jon0844]

There's no doubt the TOCs are making a lot of extra, needed, revenue from this. Some people will obviously say that is their only motivation, which might be true, but the end result is the same.

 

[mindfeeder]

I didn't think there were any additional Euston-Birmingham(Wolverhampton) trains?

Seemed a few more trains than usual at Coventry for a Sunday, no idea if they were anything to do with the ash cloud, though...

 

[Geezertronic]

Seemed a few more trains than usual at Coventry for a Sunday, no idea if they were anything to do with the ash cloud, though...

Sorry when you said yesterday I thought you meant Monday Not too sure whether there were extra Sunday trains

The extra Glasgow train that runs from Glasgow Central at 2000hrs goes via Birmingham (to call at International at 0042) and arrives at Euston at 0226. Wonder how busy that service is and how many people actually get on/off at International? And why does it take 1hr 40ish to get from International to Euston? Via Northampton?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The flying ban has been extended again...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8632930.stm

 

[matt]

Whilst watching the Wigan vs Arsenal game last night the commentator mentioned that as there were no flights, the Arsenal team 'Chartered their own train' to get them to the North west for the game instead. Any idea what this was all about, i.e. a special train or just taking over one carriage on a normal service?

Just curious really.

They used the Virgin mark 3 set.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

There's about 20+ large aircraft full of passengers, on the way to the UK, to arrive between 7pm and 11:30pm today. Originally scheduled for London.

With only 30 minutes until the first are due to arrive, its still unclear whether any might be permitted to land at Heathrow, and if not, whether they'll be diverted to Madrid, Barcelona, Nice, Amsterdam, Brussells, Edinburgh, Manchester or Newcastle.

It would be great if additional capacity could be provided on the rail network for all those passengers, but wouldn't it be easier if a decision could have been made before now?
Who can blame any rail operator for NOT arranging what additional capacity CAN be provided if they don't know?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
So the first are being diverted to Brussells.
How's Eurostar's bookings looking for tomorrow? (too late for tonight I think)

 

[142094]

On BBC Look North they were at Newcastle, and it is supposed to be the only English airport taking planes tonight. Bit of a boost as the airport has been losing £100,000+ a day.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Sorry to slide this off-topic, but this "volcanic ash" story has still some twists left in it . . . . Now that these arriving passengers have travelled all day from Asia or N.America, they're being kept in the air longer while they're now diverted away. They (and their planes) are actually in UK airspace and now being sent on elsewhere.
And some are just circling over S.England (in risk of taking in ash particles, presumably) while BA and NATS argue.
There's going to be some explaining to do.
Is this still about safety?

 

[Failed Unit]

Is this still about safety?

That is such a hard call that I bet no-one dare make.

Devils advocate.
We open the airspace, 10000 planes travel no problem, plane 10001 crashes. Could you imagine the outcry and calls for blood, profit over safety etc. I think even if the call is wrong no-one dare backtrack now just in case something happens.

I guess the question is no how safe is safe?

I definately wouldn't want to make that call!

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I definately wouldn't want to make that call!

Ah, now from the point of view of whether to fly or not, then I don't have a problem in making the decision. If in doubt, don't do it.

But this is different, these planes are circling up there right now, being kept in the air (dangerous or not) for longer than necessary, in holding patterns over Chester, Westport (Ireland), the Isle of Man and Surrey.
It CAN'T be safe to make them play a waiting game while BA and NATS argue some standoff.
Its been absolutely clear all day that BA authorised their crews to put these planes (and passengers) in the air - NATS (who take instruction from our government) are now refusing them permission to land - on safety grounds.
This is politics now. And passengers are (possibly) at risk while they argue.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Now seems that most of the BA flights have been permitted to land in Shannon and Brussels.

So, as the NATS / DfT did't let BA land them here, I just hope they'll make it easy for passengers to get home tomorrow. And have a very good excuse for making them wait in the air over an empty Heathrow airport!

Interestingly, a NON-BA 747 has been allowed to land in Edinburgh. This really IS political!