Planes grounded, special train requirements?

[Mvann]

Steam would be best used on something like Crewe - Holyhead which could then release London - Holyhead trains for journeys further north.

 

[Mintona]

All Dover Priory trains are rammed at the moment, quite glad I am on the Faversham turns today! We are working on providing extra Dover trains.

 

[jon0844]

Bob Crow seems to have missed a trick here then! If only he could have called another strike at short notice (thank goodness he can't!).

I wonder what he might have to say about the TOCs putting on extra services though, if anyone ever cared to ask him.

I presume it will be along the lines of them being greedy and simply trying to cash in (it's obvious that there's a financial benefit to the TOCs for putting on these trains).

 

[Matt Taylor]

The trains should frankly keep their noses out of the air industry's business. If they can't keep to a level of service offered by their airline rivals, then they should ask themselves what went wrong?

Let's look at the airlines:

Easyjet, no mention anywhere on their site of any disruption, even the 'latest travel updates' suggests all is running normally.

Ryanair, a little line about disruption amid flashing adverts and bold 'book here' links.

BA, red banner news on the top of the page linking to full details of disruption.

Virgin, a small link on the left of the page regarding current disruption.


IMO a very poor effort from our four main airlines, only BA comes out of it with any credit, and this is notwithstanding all the scenes of passengers sleeping on cold airport floors with little or no information or food vouchers etc.

And to add insult to injury there is no compensation due to 'force majeure'.


I think the TOCs have done a great job of transporting hundreds of thousands of extra long distant passengers at the drop of of a hat, and it's not as if the last friday of the school holidays was not already busy anyway.

 

[F Great Eastern]

I would never normally defend Ryanair but they have done very well with communication in this. They've made a full list of flights for each day as well as an a link to an article explaining what the situation is caused by and some maps to back it up to try and show people.

http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-expects-current-flight-cancellations-to-continue
http://www.ryanair.com/en/notices/gops/100414-ICELAND_ASH-GB

If you think they are bad you should see Aer Lingus, even more hidden with hardly any information.

 

[Oliver]

Let's look at the airlines:

Easyjet, no mention anywhere on their site of any disruption, even the 'latest travel updates' suggests all is running normally.

EasyJet have a clear notice on their home page:

http://www.easyjet.com/asp/en/book/index.asp?lang=EN

 

[the sniper]

EasyJet have a clear notice on their home page:

http://www.easyjet.com/asp/en/book/index.asp?lang=EN

I really wouldn't say it's that clear, for one, it's under the title 'Europe's leading low fares airline' and the subtitle 'Where we fly to'. Then the font they use doesn't stand out at all.

 

[northwichcat]

Bob Crow seems to have missed a trick here then! If only he could have called another strike at short notice (thank goodness he can't!).

Then he would have a large angry mob outside his house. Even if he had called a strike before the disruption which would have affected Thursday-Sunday then he should have postponed it, otherwise people arriving in London from Europe would be wanting to sleep in the out-of-service trains and everyone would be praising National Express coaches.

 

[Dolive22]

On the subject of charter, Rail-Blue say they can can run a train of over 500 seats. I don't know how quickly they can clear legal hurdles, or even whether it can be fast tracked while parliament is prorogued. By my count they could run 744 (762 with buffet car) using all mk3 stock. My estimate of weight would be, based on 20 tonnes per car (is that right) is 13 cars (14 with buffet) weighing in at 260 (280 with buffet) which could easily be hauled by anything freightliner has except a class 08.

Rail-Blue have actually got 4 mk3 buffet cars, so could run them on more than one train, spread throughout the train or with the buffet function unused to gain the extra 18 seats. They also have about 1800 seats of mk2 plus buffet cars.

Rail-Blue and Freighliner are chosen because their fleet details are in my favourites, no reason other couldn't do the same.

 

[313103]

Bob Crow seems to have missed a trick here then! If only he could have called another strike at short notice (thank goodness he can't!).

I wonder what he might have to say about the TOCs putting on extra services though, if anyone ever cared to ask him.

I presume it will be along the lines of them being greedy and simply trying to cash in (it's obvious that there's a financial benefit to the TOCs for putting on these trains).

I hope that this thread doesnt degenerate into a anti RMT, anti Bob Crow etc, it would appear that once again some out there are looking to make mischief.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Then he would have a large angry mob outside his house. Even if he had called a strike before the disruption which would have affected Thursday-Sunday then he should have postponed it, otherwise people arriving in London from Europe would be wanting to sleep in the out-of-service trains and everyone would be praising National Express coaches.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
In the meantime there are at least a dozen Mk3s and 4 mk2s sitting at Willesden TMD looking pretty especially with the different liveries they are all carrying. Along with a nicely painted DVT three class 86s and a 87, surely these could be used. Even if the regulars didnt use it im sure there are enough on here that would.

 

[mumrar]

My estimate of weight would be, based on 20 tonnes per car (is that right) is 13 cars (14 with buffet) weighing in at 260 (280 with buffet) which could easily be hauled by anything freightliner has except a class 08.

There aren't any legal hurdles to overcome. The stock is registered to run on the mainline. As for weight, try something more like 36 tonnes per mk3, so 13 is a total of 468 tonnes. Then add all of the passengers and their luggage, you're probably looking at a total of 520 tonnes load, not a problem for the many fleets of private hire locos.

 

[Dolive22]

I was pretty much guessing blind on weight.

Can they run normal passenger services with their licence?

 

[jon0844]

I am not trying to turn this into an anti-union rant, but this is something positive for the railway and yet nobody seems to be talking about it much in the national press or TV.

I was therefore interested to know what the likes of Bob Crow (and not the union, as I don't personally think he represents his members) would have to say on it. I am talking purely about him, NOT the RMT.

It would be good to hear him praising the railway, but I just don't think he could do it - that would be praising the evil private operators.

 

[Greenback]

I am not trying to turn this into an anti-union rant, but this is something positive for the railway and yet nobody seems to be talking about it much in the national press or TV.

I was therefore interested to know what the likes of Bob Crow (and not the union, as I don't personally think he represents his members) would have to say on it. I am talking purely about him, NOT the RMT.

It would be good to hear him praising the railway, but I just don't think he could do it - that would be praising the evil private operators.

Of course there is no positive publicity for the railways, the media enjoy knocking it far too much, it would be like they were admitting they have been wrong all along!

 

[holyflyer]

Would anyone happen to know the train situation at Fishguard. I may have to route back to London that way later this week as a foot passenger. I know Stena and Irish ferries are full to bursting.

Sensible thing would be for FGW to 'assist' Arriva Wales and extend a Swansea service HST to Fishguard as per the old days. I would hope its more than the usual 1 or 2 car dmu.

Irish Rail reporting very heavy loadings on trains to Rosslare including the Waterford line scheduled for closure due to lack of use!

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

Would anyone happen to know the train situation at Fishguard. I may have to route back to London that way later this week as a foot passenger. I know Stena and Irish ferries are full to bursting.

Sensible thing would be for FGW to 'assist' Arriva Wales and extend a Swansea service HST to Fishguard as per the old days. I would hope its more than the usual 1 or 2 car dmu.

Irish Rail reporting very heavy loadings on trains to Rosslare including the Waterford line scheduled for closure due to lack of use!

Yes, I was wondering what kind of affect this was having on the lines usage. If this carries on and off for a number of years as some experts are suggesting then they are seriously going to have to rethink the running down of the boat trains. I guess its a bit late to bring back the Folkestone harbour line though.

Reading the posts above, it almost make you wish there was a strategic reserve, doesn't it?

 

[jopsuk]

Don't think there'd be much point in reviving the Folkstone branch given the state of the ferry terminal- but if you were to do the work to bring that back, I'm betting the branch would be the least of the problems!

A decent bus-link from Dover Priory to the Eastern Docks might be seful

 

[dk1]

Would have been nice if the HSS Discovery which had been sitting in Belfast since 2007 used as a Christmas tree to keep Voyager & Explorer afloat, could head back to Harwich to resume her place across the North Sea. I might've refreshed the Harwich Branch & NXEA started up the once popular Liverpool Street boat trains such as "The Day Continental".

Unfortunatley i now note that last year Stena-Line finally sold it to a ferry company in Venezuela wher oil prices are much cheaper.

 

[Greenback]

Yes, I was wondering what kind of affect this was having on the lines usage. If this carries on and off for a number of years as some experts are suggesting then they are seriously going to have to rethink the running down of the boat trains. I guess its a bit late to bring back the Folkestone harbour line though.

Reading the posts above, it almost make you wish there was a strategic reserve, doesn't it?

ATW are 'endeavouring to provide extra capacity on as many trains as possible' (Fishguard & Holyhead). FGW have no information posted.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Can they run normal passenger services with their licence?

On their own, I don't think so. But if they were chartered by a TOC, it would presumably be under the TOC's safety case and insurance, so could be done very quickly?




As an aside, it has been reported this evening that the Frankfurt - Koln high speed line has been closed due to ash deposits, with the ICEs running via the classic line, so perhaps we should be wary of being too gleeful at all the extra traffic the railways are picking up.

 

[deltic]

http://www.christianwolmar.co.uk/2010/04/railway-cannot-no-longer-respond-to-crisis/

Railway can no longer respond to crisis

By Christian Wolmar April 16, 2010 Christian Says


After the Xmas Eurostar debacle, the company repeatedly said that it would improve its website in future to communicate better with its passengers and respond better to crisis. Fat chance. On the website today, there is a mere two paragraph warning telling people not to come to the stations without a ticket but there is no mention of any extra trains or anything that is being done to accommodate displaced air passengers.
There is no attempt to inform travellers of what to do and no news about any extra trains. Given the spare capacity on the line, the extra train sets mouldering in sidings, it should not be beyond the whit of the management to rustle up a few extra trains and take advantage of the airlines misfortune.
But no. This shows the extent to which the company is unable to respond to changing circumstances. As I said after the xmas debacle, there is a desperate need for fresh management and new thinking. Eurostar has all the failings of old railway thinking, and behaves like the monopoly that it is.
The domestic operators are not doing much better. East Coast put on an extra service today, and Virgin a couple, but events such as this demonstrate the inflexibility of the railways, and the fact that they are not a form of transport that can be relied upon at times of crisis. This suggests they are a nice addition to our transport infrastructure, but not really a fundamental part of it, which begs the question of whether the subsidy they receive is justified.
Stop press: Network Rail has just announced that it will cancel any engineering work that gets in the way of long distance train travel. Sensible, but why does it not do that more often when, for example, there are big sports occasions.

 

[Greenback]

The railways in the UK have been seen as merely a nice addition for years. The method of funding in the 1980's forced BR to remove stock from its books to satisfy the government. In fact, the railway system has been completely stripped of the ability to handle current demand, let alone accommodate thousands of travellers whose first choice is now unavailable.

I find it quite laughable that the railway is not to be criticised for being unable to soak up all of the air passengers now unable to get anywhere, when the consensus of most people over the past three decades is that the railway is rubbish, a waste of money, old fashioned and pointless. I only hope that attitudes to rail will improve after this ash cloud incident, and that we will see a return to civilised travel by train and ship!

 

[Moog_1984]

Where I am working in Norway you could smell sulphur last night!

They say that this is just the little sister that has gorn orff: the big beastie volcano is due a blast and it has more ice on the top, which makes the glass particles nastier according to someone in the papers here.

The one going off contains the word Fjalla which has become "fell" in England BTW big man....

 

[jon0844]

It will be interesting to see what happens tomorrow, given that Sunday services are a shadow of weekday or even Saturday services. There must be loads of spare capacity waiting for the many trains sitting in sidings and depots.

I'm going into London tomorrow. I wonder if I'll see loads more trains on the ECML?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

As an aside, it has been reported this evening that the Frankfurt - Koln high speed line has been closed due to ash deposits, with the ICEs running via the classic line, so perhaps we should be wary of being too gleeful at all the extra traffic the railways are picking up.

Re: My post at #80, I have just been advised that the reason given was incorrect; the high speed line closure was due to an ICE having a door fall off(!) and another ICE going the other way struck the said detached door head on.

Not volcano related, but still not good.

 

[yorksrob]

I have to say, hats off to the TOC's for getting extra trains up and running at short notice. The pretendalino certainly appears to have been a good investment allowing a certain degree of flexibility.

With regard to charter MK 3's and loco's available, I wonder why hasn't The Government done more to get these in service? Afterall, private companies and groups of enthusiasts are able to charter trains (sometimes at short notice). I often think that modern Governments (of all persuasions) have a tendancy to hide behind private companies rather than actually getting things done themselves.

 

[Moog_1984]

I have to say, hats off to the TOC's for getting extra trains up and running at short notice. The pretendalino certainly appears to have been a good investment allowing a certain degree of flexibility.

I often think that modern Governments (of all persuasions) have a tendancy to hide behind private companies rather than actually getting things done themselves.

hee, hee ...a very interesting reversal of the situation in the late 70s early 80s, where failing and lazy businesses hid behind the governments being so bad.


I reckon the network ran better in 1982! This is what it needs though, more mother nature versus flying!

 

[dk1]

It is great to see some extra trains today on both main lines to Scotland but Sunday is not always an easy day to crew. Remember that those working late turns Saturday will usually be early turn Monday leaving little or no scope for a shift on Sunday with 12hrs rest either side. There is also the problem of overtime & extra shifts. If the staff dont want to work there is nothing the TOC can do & it would be stupid to advertise additional services that they cannot guarrantee.

 

[mumrar]

http://www.christianwolmar.co.uk/2010/04/railway-cannot-no-longer-respond-to-crisis/

Railway can no longer respond to crisis

By Christian Wolmar April 16, 2010 Christian Says


After the Xmas Eurostar debacle, the company repeatedly said that it would improve its website in future to communicate better with its passengers and respond better to crisis.

Oh, 'Railway Expert' Chrisitan Wolmar, darling to the media and an arse of the highest order. Would he advocate fare rises of 10% in order to service warm stored stock ready for just incase a volcano erupts. Have National Express had hundreds of buses they've been able to get out in to service that they don't usually need? How on Earth can the railways be realistically expected to respond to an international crisis, caused by a volcano erupting, and needing to transport thousands of stranded passengers from all over the country? It's ludicrous, absolutely absurd, to complain that railways don't have spare rolling stock for this kind of thing. Remind me again, when was the last time all of Europes flights were grounded by volcanic ash? This has only served to show which side of the fence self appointed expert Mr Wolmar resides.

 

[Failed Unit]

The £200 figure was a First Class ticket which had been purchased 20minutes before the train left. Hence my disbelief.

At least you had the option, on air what chance would you have of buying any ticket 20 minutes before departure. If getting from A-b is what you need to do then it is better to stand then to not travel at all. Saying that you should at least be able to get the difference refunded between 1st and Standard class for not getting a seat. Scotrail do this when Standard class only units show up on services which should have 1st.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The trains should frankly keep their noses out of the air industry's business. If they can't keep to a level of service offered by their airline rivals, then they should ask themselves what went wrong?

Hmm standard of service offered by airlines, treat customers like cattle and force them to suffer long security queue. No refunds for extensive delays etc. Yep the railways should have just said if you normally travel by air tough you are stuck we are not going to help you get where you need to be! :roll: