Plan for Staycation Rail Pass Abandoned

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Guardian is reporting that the plan for a "Britrail Pass" for domestic use has been binned.
The aim was to boost domestic tourism with a special "railrover" type ticket.
Apparently it is "not commercially viable" to introduce, which means that DfT/RDG opposed it, or only at a price which was not viable with the tourist bodies.

Plans for rail pass for UK staycationers axed over cost concerns

Exclusive: extensive consultations since idea was proposed 18 months ago have found it would not be commercially viable

www.theguardian.com

It is widely known that the TOCs dislike rovers and have imposed restrictions on their use as well as steep price rises (the fares are not regulated).
They also generally fail to promote their use, though some TOCs are better at it than others.
Maybe it got caught up in the the anticipated revolution of rail fares by GBR.
Either way it is disappointing that a useful rail travel marketing initiative has been snuffed out like this.

Plans to boost domestic tourism by introducing a rail pass for British staycationers have been axed, the Guardian can reveal.
The idea was initially heralded by the government as a way to help struggling businesses get back on their feet as the final Covid restrictions were being lifted in the summer of 2021, but extensive consultations since have found it would not be commercially viable.
The special ticket was intended to be modelled on the BritRail pass, which is sold through VisitBritain and allows foreign tourists unlimited journeys on most train lines across England, Wales and Scotland.
It is sold as a way of encouraging visitors to travel to attractions across the country, letting them “discover the hidden gems of Britain anytime, on any train,” at “great value for money”.

As the final unlocking of restrictions approached, the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) said in a widely reported announcement in June 2021 that a similar rail pass for staycationers would be launched “later this year”. However, more than 18 months later, the plan has not come to fruition.
In an update to the tourism recovery plan quietly released this month, the department said that the “domestic rail tourism product” had been axed.
Extensive research by DCMS, alongside the Department for Transport, the Rail Delivery Group and VisitBritain, found that such a product “would not provide value for money for customers” if it were commercially viable.
“The government will work with VisitBritain and the rail operators to find alternative ways to encourage more people to use UK rail networks to enjoy the leisure and tourism offer around the country”, the document noted.

 

[JonathanH]

Apparently it is "not commercially viable" to introduce, which means that DfT/RDG opposed it, or only at a price which was not viable with the tourist bodies.

Ultimately anything that offers unlimited rail travel over a wide area can't be priced at a viable level on the UK rail network, because it has to be set in such a way that doesn't cannibalise existing revenue.

Either way it is disappointing that a useful rail travel marketing initiative has been snuffed out like this.

Offering fares at an accessible level for out and back journeys, and offering rovers on a regional basis, fits with what most people want from rail journeys, and what can be priced reasonably.

Promoting the existing rovers and getting people to explore a particular area is far more viable than freedom of the whole network.

 

[sor]

But what makes the UK so different to countries like Germany that seem quite happy to offer such products, not just the post-COVID 49eur thing but the Bahncards too. Why can they do it without this fear of making the line go down on a graph? What about the societal advantages, like fewer car journeys

If the concern is that it would cause people to move away from season tickets, then surely the problem is the existing fares structure, but I'm sure you could add conditions like a limit of one or two such passes per calendar year.

 

[JonathanH]

What about the societal advantages, like fewer car journeys

The societal advantages arise where a car journey isn't taken but a railway one is. There are fewer tangible societal benefits to people taking rail journeys over a long distance when they could take one over a shorter distance.

I would absolutely advocate people using regional rover tickets, particularly in the context of the domestic market. I think you can explore an area effectively, and get good value from one, without needing to spend all day travelling.

Personally, I am not convinced that freedom of the entire rail network in the UK is necessary, and to justify the current cost of an all line rail rover, you really need to be taking long distance journeys every day, otherwise why not just buy a regional ticket?

If the concern is that it would cause people to move away from season tickets, then surely the problem is the existing fares structure, but I'm sure you could add conditions like a limit of one or two such passes per calendar year.

I am not sure that season ticket revenue is the issue, rather the impact on ordinary rail ticket income.

But what makes the UK so different to countries like Germany that seem quite happy to offer such products, not just the post-COVID 49eur thing but the Bahncards too. Why can they do it without this fear of making the line go down on a graph?

The nature of the rail network is different. Our rail network is heavily dominated by people travelling to and from London, and a number of other key rail corridors. The demand in Germany is more disparate because of the absence of one dominant city, so there isn't the same sort of concentration, and potential for cannibalisation of revenue. The restrictions on the all line rover make it quite clear which revenue flows the railway was most concerned about when they were introduced.

 

[miklcct]

If the concern is that it would cause people to move away from season tickets, then surely the problem is the existing fares structure, but I'm sure you could add conditions like a limit of one or two such passes per calendar year.

Just put a peak restriction onto it and that will be fine.

 

[yorksrob]

Not conducive to the continual fleecing of the travelling public and the imposition of treasury cuts.

Not surprising since we have a motorist Government for motorists.

Obviously there's no real reason why we can't have such a thing if other countries have it, but the Establishment are only interested in following their quasi-religious cult of market commercialism.

 

[JonathanH]

Not conducive to the continual fleecing of the travelling public and the imposition of treasury cuts.

Can you give a good reason why someone needs to be able to be in North Berwick one day, Penzance the next and Lowestoft the next at a discounted price, when they could be exploring Leeds on day one, Halifax on day two and Wakefield on day three?

 

[yorksrob]

Can you give a good reason why someone needs to be able to be in North Berwick one day, Penzance the next and Lowestoft the next at a discounted price, when they could be exploring Leeds on day one, Halifax on day two and Wakefield on day three?

Can you give any good reason why overseas tourists should have a good rover ticket to explore the country but not British ones ?

 

[30907]

Can you give any good reason why overseas tourists should have a good rover ticket to explore the country but not British ones ?

Same as why I should be encouraged to travel in other (European) countries with my Interrail, or to have free travel in my holiday resort for the price of a tourist tax.
Or of course I could splash out on an ALR....

 

[yorksrob]

Same as why I should be encouraged to travel in other (European) countries with my Interrail, or to have free travel in my holiday resort for the price of a tourist tax.
Or of course I could splash out on an ALR....

Well, it wouldn't take much to make an ALR useful for holidaymakers. Make it a five in ten or equivalent.

 

[Sm5]

Can you give any good reason why overseas tourists should have a good rover ticket to explore the country but not British ones ?

Because its foreign money inbound into the economy, as opposed to recycling existing money through the economy, and it encourages more foreignors to do the same.

 

[thedbdiboy]

This was nothing to do with TOCs; it was a DCMS (Department of Culture, Media and Sport initiative that foundered in horse trading with the DfT and the Treasury, so was a feudal Whitehall affair.
In a normal world where Government departments weren't micro-managing the rail industry, the logical place to start wouldn't be 'ooh, we need a brand new project that can make our Minister look good for 5 minutes' but more a case of getting an arms length rail authority to review and overhaul Rover and Ranger tickets to better align to the needs of GB tourism without being bound to TOC territories

 

[Joe Paxton]

This was nothing to do with TOCs; it was a DCMS (Department of Culture, Media and Sport initiative that foundered in horse trading with the DfT and the Treasury, so was a feudal Whitehall affair.
In a normal world where Government departments weren't micro-managing the rail industry, the logical place to start wouldn't be 'ooh, we need a brand new project that can make our Minister look good for 5 minutes' but more a case of getting an arms length rail authority to review and overhaul Rover and Ranger tickets to better align to the needs of GB tourism without being bound to TOC territories

This is oh so very believable!

 

[SouthEastBuses]

The Guardian is reporting that the plan for a "Britrail Pass" for domestic use has been binned.
The aim was to boost domestic tourism with a special "railrover" type ticket.
Apparently it is "not commercially viable" to introduce, which means that DfT/RDG opposed it, or only at a price which was not viable with the tourist bodies.

Plans for rail pass for UK staycationers axed over cost concerns

Exclusive: extensive consultations since idea was proposed 18 months ago have found it would not be commercially viable

www.theguardian.com

It is widely known that the TOCs dislike rovers and have imposed restrictions on their use as well as steep price rises (the fares are not regulated).
They also generally fail to promote their use, though some TOCs are better at it than others.
Maybe it got caught up in the the anticipated revolution of rail fares by GBR.
Either way it is disappointing that a useful rail travel marketing initiative has been snuffed out like this.

Huh? There already is a "Britrail Pass" for domestic use!

It's called the All Line Rover, available for use either for 7 or 14 days.

More info here:

Purchase flexible walk-up fares for any British train journey

Purchase flexible single/return tickets & Travelcards – in 3 clicks. Full details of all British rail fares shown, with built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

Purchase flexible walk-up fares for any British train journey

Purchase flexible single/return tickets & Travelcards – in 3 clicks. Full details of all British rail fares shown, with built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

 

[JonathanH]

Huh? There already is a "Britrail Pass" for domestic use!

It's called the All Line Rover, available for use either for 7 or 14 days.

£571 for 7 days, priced to reflect the fact that most are sold to people who want to be able to spend most of the day travelling, and who need to be in different parts of the country each day.

Also time restricted as despite the high cost, it has the potential to cannibalise peak time revenue.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

£571 for 7 days, priced to reflect the fact that most are sold to people who want to be able to spend most of the day travelling, and who need to be in different parts of the country each day.

Also time restricted as despite the high cost, it has the potential to cannibalise peak time revenue.

So what would the difference be between the current All Line Rover and the proposed country-wide rail pass then?

Time restricted only on some long distance services between some stations between 04:29 and 10:00 Monday to Fridays. Which means that one could still for example travel on GWR from London to Oxford during the weekday morning peak. Or LNER between York and Edinburgh. Or Avanti West Coast between Glasgow Central and Warrington Bank Quay (as the restriction for the latter two operators only apply for the London stations, as well as Stevenage for LNER and Milton Keynes Central, Watford Junction and Birmingham New Street for AWC)

 

[JonathanH]

So what would the difference be between the current All Line Rover and the proposed country-wide rail pass then?

Is it clear that there was a difference? It appears that there wasn't a price that would make it widely marketable, and which would maintain railway revenue.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Is it clear that there was a difference? It appears that there wasn't a price that would make it widely marketable, and which would maintain railway revenue.

So they basically wanted to reduce the price of the current All Line Rover then?

As much as I would have welcomed that, sadly this is the UK we're talking about, so I can never see such thing happening. Given how outragously expensive our train fares tend to be unless you're lucky enough to be able to own a railcard.

Interestingly, as I own a 16-25 railcard, I would only pay about £430 for a 7 day All Line Rover

 

[plugwash]

The fundamental issue is how to make something that attracts more tourists to the railway without canabalising revenue from existing rail users. Particularly those who travel frequently for buisness. The kind of people who grumble about the price of anytime tickets from Manchester to London but ultimately pay it.

For foreign visitors this is less of an issue as most people travelling internationality on business will be flyin from their home country, not using rail to tour a bunch of places in the same country.

 

[railfan99]

Can you give any good reason why overseas tourists should have a good rover ticket to explore the country but not British ones ?

Because overseas tourists have potentially 150-200 other nations to explore, even if we self-impose 'no go zones' (in my case, the vast majority of Africa).

It would also be said many tourists from overseas spend more per night than domestic travellers, because a higher percentage are true leisure travellers, rather than the 'visiting friends and relatives' category. Allied to this is how even if travelling a fair bit, domestic travellers may sometimes do a day return trip that sees them overnighting back at home.

On average, international travellers do a lot more costly shopping and dine out more (and sometimes at higher value per meal) than domestic patrons.

I decided not to go to USA again for a while (last visit 2016). Amtrak's USA rail pass only allows a number of trips, and a 'trip' can be from Los Angeles to San Diego, with a return journey counting as 'two trips'. It can be remarkably poor value compared with Eurailpass, even though supplements imposed by operators such as SNCF are hefty for TGVs.

There's hypocrisy on my part because NSW TrainLink offers a 14 day to six month Discover Pass that (if one wanted to) would see a traveller visit Brisbane/Queensland's Gold Coast/Melbourne/Broken Hill and Adelaide as it serves all four, but there is no Austrailpass available for citizens of my nation to cover the whole country. Nor does the operator in my state, Victoria (V/Line) offer an all lines pass however from 31 March 2023 a flat maximum single fare anywhere in the state will apply: a heavily subsidised bargain A$4.60 single (one way).

 

[yorksrob]

Because its foreign money inbound into the economy, as opposed to recycling existing money through the economy, and it encourages more foreignors to do the same

Because overseas tourists have potentially 150-200 other nations to explore, even if we self-impose 'no go zones' (in my case, the vast majority of Africa).

It would also be said many tourists from overseas spend more per night than domestic travellers, because a higher percentage are true leisure travellers, rather than the 'visiting friends and relatives' category. Allied to this is how even if travelling a fair bit, domestic travellers may sometimes do a day return trip that sees them overnighting back at home.

On average, international travellers do a lot more costly shopping and dine out more (and sometimes at higher value per meal) than domestic patrons.

I decided not to go to USA again for a while (last visit 2016). Amtrak's USA rail pass only allows a number of trips, and a 'trip' can be from Los Angeles to San Diego, with a return journey counting as 'two trips'. It can be remarkably poor value compared with Eurailpass, even though supplements imposed by operators such as SNCF are hefty for TGVs.

There's hypocrisy on my part because NSW TrainLink offers a 14 day to six month Discover Pass that (if one wanted to) would see a traveller visit Brisbane/Queensland's Gold Coast/Melbourne/Broken Hill and Adelaide as it serves all four, but there is no Austrailpass available for citizens of my nation to cover the whole country. Nor does the operator in my state, Victoria (V/Line) offer an all lines pass however from 31 March 2023 a flat maximum single fare anywhere in the state will apply: a heavily subsidised bargain A$4.60 single (one way).

And also UK tourists don't have a choice of hundreds of destinations worldwide to travel to ?

Surely if tourism is good for the economy we want to be encouraging our own tourists to discover the country as well ?

Also, it's not just recycling domestic money. Domestic money can be spent on imported goods, non-domestically owned streaming services and a host of other things detrimental to the balance of payments (as well as foreign holidays) so a rail product to encourage them to holiday here would be beneficial.

As it happens, you could fit this country in New South Wales quite easily with room left over to spare, so I take that as an argument in favour of having a UK equivalent.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Mar 2023 ==

Huh? There already is a "Britrail Pass" for domestic use!

It's called the All Line Rover, available for use either for 7 or 14 days.

More info here:

Purchase flexible walk-up fares for any British train journey

Purchase flexible single/return tickets & Travelcards – in 3 clicks. Full details of all British rail fares shown, with built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

Purchase flexible walk-up fares for any British train journey

Purchase flexible single/return tickets & Travelcards – in 3 clicks. Full details of all British rail fares shown, with built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

Little use for anyone other than dedicated track bashers who want to spend a week on trains.

Why not make it a seven in fourteen, which would be a lot more useful to genuine holiday makers.

 

[Wolfie]

Can you give a good reason why someone needs to be able to be in North Berwick one day, Penzance the next and Lowestoft the next at a discounted price, when they could be exploring Leeds on day one, Halifax on day two and Wakefield on day three?

The number of people who would wish to explore Leeds, Halifax and Wakefield on successive days could probably be counted on the fingers of one hand....

 

[miklcct]

The number of people who would wish to explore Leeds, Halifax and Wakefield on successive days could probably be counted on the fingers of one hand....

However a typical tourist world wish to explore London, Brighton, Oxford, Cambridge, Windsor, etc., on successive days.

 

[Wolfie]

However a typical tourist world wish to explore London, Brighton, Oxford, Cambridge, Windsor, etc., on successive days.

I agree. I was trying to point out the limitations in utility of current geographically limited rover tickets for tourism.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Switzerland heavily promotes its tourist passes, and has recently introduced a Saver Day Pass.
This covers the whole network for a fare staring at CHF 52 (about £47), but the fare is higher on peak days.
The ticket can't be bought on the day, and is available up to 2 months in advance.
Also available online and as a mobile ticket.

Saver Day Pass – book earlier, travel cheaper | SBB

Book earlier, travel cheaper: get your Saver Day Passes via the app or at SBB.ch from CHF 29 Half Fare and from CHF 52 Full Fare.

www.sbb.ch

Very good for tourists who are planning their time in Switzerland, and designed not to impact business travel.
Covers multiple travel modes, too, including lake steamers and some mountain routes.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Can you give a good reason why someone needs to be able to be in North Berwick one day, Penzance the next and Lowestoft the next at a discounted price

I live in the Isle of Man and can buy exactly such a ticket, and intend to this summer.

Don’t you think it bizarre that I can buy such a ticket but you- despite paying tax in the UK- cannot?

 

[sor]

Can you give a good reason why someone needs to be able to be in North Berwick one day, Penzance the next and Lowestoft the next at a discounted price, when they could be exploring Leeds on day one, Halifax on day two and Wakefield on day three?

I'm posting this from sunny Switzerland after finally using my 50% discount pass from last year's sale. I think it is fantastic that I can, with no notice, basically pick and choose where I want to go, and barring the countries/services that need reservations, I don't need to worry about tickets and validity. This has been especially useful given that I was stuck in Berlin on Mon due to the strikes - no worries, just hop on the ICE the next day.

So why can't I do this in Great Britain too, just like all the Swiss around me right now who could do it with their interrail passes?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Huh? There already is a "Britrail Pass" for domestic use!

It's called the All Line Rover, available for use either for 7 or 14 days.

And it’s approximately 50% (edit: it’s actually 246%, the gap has widened since I last looked) more expensive than what I- a non-UK resident- gets to pay!

A 15-day first class BritRail will cost me €611 (£537). That is less than the 7-day standard class All Line Rover at £571. The 14-day ALR is a whopping £1323, for one fewer day’s validity.

Suits me fine, but if I were paying tax in the UK I’d be rather annoyed.

 

[ainsworth74]

But what makes the UK so different to countries like Germany that seem quite happy to offer such products, not just the post-COVID 49eur thing but the Bahncards too. Why can they do it without this fear of making the line go down on a graph?

Because HM Treasury are penny wise but pound foolish and would rather save money now even if down the line it ends up costing far more in the long run. The railways are but one example of this problem.

 

[ChrisC]

The number of people who would wish to explore Leeds, Halifax and Wakefield on successive days could probably be counted on the fingers of one hand....

Whilst there’s nothing wrong with Leeds, Halifax and Wakefield I think a tourist exploring the area would want to be a little more imaginative. I could quite happily base myself in a hotel close to a railway station in one of those places and use a regional rover to explore Harrogate, Knaresborough, York, Skipton, Ilkley, Hebden Bridge, Skipton, Settle, Bronte Country, Saltaire etc etc. Unfortunately using that example one regional rover wouldn’t cover the area as it’s divided into North West and North East.

There isn’t any need to travel huge distances from one end of the country to the other. Some people don’t want to keep moving hotels and would prefer to stay in a central base. The last time I did a 7 Day NW Rover I had a whole days exploring the Cumbrian Coast, the Wirral, the coast between Liverpool and Southport, plus historic cities like Chester and Carlisle.

I think there is a case for developing more regional rovers for areas tourists really want to explore and advertising them more.