Plain Packaging on Cigarettes

[Nym]

To be more precise, it depends on the kind of education. People who have done mathematics, engineering or science degrees are highly unlikely to smoke.

I invite you to stand on Granby Row in Manchester luv, plenty of us engineering students smoke(d)...

 

[radamfi]

I invite you to stand on Granby Row in Manchester luv, plenty of us engineering students smoke(d)...

Note your use of the past tense. Presumably a lot of you no longer smoke.

Smoking rates also vary by institution. One of the things I looked for when visiting universities for interviews in 1990 was the visibility of smoking and Bath looked like it had a particularly low smoking rate. It was noteworthy for being particularly science/engineering orientated at the time and few of my fellow students smoked.

 

[Butts]

With the shutter doors in front of a cigarette display now anyway surely the packaging is irrelevant as you cant see it before you buy.

Ludicrously only in Supermarkets - Corner Shops (where most kids probably shop and get fags) are excluded for a couple of years, so the wares are on display
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Note your use of the past tense. Presumably a lot of you no longer smoke.

Smoking rates also vary by institution. One of the things I looked for when visiting universities for interviews in 1990 was the visibility of smoking and Bath looked like it had a particularly low smoking rate. It was noteworthy for being particularly science/engineering orientated at the time and few of my fellow students smoked.

Blimey that's a new one on me - you were ahead of your time
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Perhaps the Government should mind it's own business, and stop regulating peoples private lives?

I seriously doubt that plain packaging has any effect at all, when it comes to people smoking.

I really do wonder who they are going to come for next when all the smokers have been extinguished

Alcohol has implications for health yet attracts far less opprobrium (The AB's like to quaff ) and certainly results in violence and disorder not normally associated with smoking.

 

[Nym]

Note your use of the past tense. Presumably a lot of you no longer smoke.

Smoking rates also vary by institution. One of the things I looked for when visiting universities for interviews in 1990 was the visibility of smoking and Bath looked like it had a particularly low smoking rate. It was noteworthy for being particularly science/engineering orientated at the time and few of my fellow students smoked.

I have up a few years ago, but a lot I knew there still do; as do two of my collegues of the same career 'age'. (out of four)

 

[ralphchadkirk]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24158778 is quite an interesting study about socioeconomic groups and the relationship to smoking.

 

[jon0844]

Listening to Radio 4 on the way to work tonight I was interested to hear The Government has partially backtracked on this issue.

Previously almost dismissing it out of hand they are now to take steps so the measure can be introduced as soon as an investigation has concluded in relation to youngsters being less attracted to dowdy packs. Apparently early signs from Australia the pioneers in this field have shown no drop in sales despite the roll out of the new packaging. No doubt this will have no bearing on the final decision :roll:

As far as I am aware "weed" and other such drugs do not come in fancy packaging, but this has not hindered their sales

Is this merely a token gesture to appease ASH and it's fellow zealots ?

The Government got a lot of grief for not doing anything before, so perhaps this will work in your favour? As in, now they can look at how it has done in Australia over the course of a year - and if it shows it hasn't worked, can now seem to have made the right decision all along.

 

[Butts]

The Government got a lot of grief for not doing anything before, so perhaps this will work in your favour? As in, now they can look at how it has done in Australia over the course of a year - and if it shows it hasn't worked, can now seem to have made the right decision all along.

Believe me however it has worked out in Australia will be skewered in order to bring it in over here.

As long as Luxembourg does not adopt this nonensical policy I will be ok.
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24158778 is quite an interesting study about socioeconomic groups and the relationship to smoking.

I wonder if a UK rather than Canadian study would produce similar results ?

Latest target seems to be Hospitals ....if they don't want people outside why not bring back the ashtrays at bedside !!!

 

[jon0844]

Are you sure they'd manipulate the data to bring in the change, or use it to keep things as they are - to protect the industry?

 

[DarloRich]

Listening to Radio 4 on the way to work tonight I was interested to hear The Government has partially backtracked on this issue.

Previously almost dismissing it out of hand they are now to take steps so the measure can be introduced as soon as an investigation has concluded in relation to youngsters being less attracted to dowdy packs. Apparently early signs from Australia the pioneers in this field have shown no drop in sales despite the roll out of the new packaging. No doubt this will have no bearing on the final decision :roll:

As far as I am aware "weed" and other such drugs do not come in fancy packaging, but this has not hindered their sales

Is this merely a token gesture to appease ASH and it's fellow zealots ?

Much as i dislike smoking I cant see how this will have any effect on sales. Even if you offered one make of fags in a plain packet those addicted will still buy them!

It is merely the government being seen to do something.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Much as i dislike smoking I cant see how this will have any effect on sales. Even if you offered one make of fags in a plain packet those addicted will still buy them!

It is merely the government being seen to do something.

It may prevent more people becoming addicted. Prevention is better than cure.

 

[Butts]

It may prevent more people becoming addicted. Prevention is better than cure.

Not for the taxman when theres TWELVE BILLION POUNDS at stake

 

[DarloRich]

It may prevent more people becoming addicted. Prevention is better than cure.

i doubt it will make any difference. The access to fags remains the same. You can walk into any shop and buy a packet so what does it matter if they are in plain boxes?
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Not for the taxman when theres TWELVE BILLION POUNDS at stake

and if it DOES work just stick the tax up more - the rest of you tabbers will have to cover the weaklings who give in

 

[Butts]

Does anyone find it strange that you can get Married at 16 but not buy a packet of cigarettes until you are 18

Post coital honeymoon burn will have to be supplied by someone else

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Does anyone find it strange that you can get Married at 16 but not buy a packet of cigarettes until you are 18

It makes sense if you think of it like: Buying a packet of cigarettes will inevitably cause harm (unless you throw them away without using them!). By contrast, getting married wouldn't normally by itself cause harm to anyone. Requiring people to be older/more mature before they are allowed to do things that inevitably cause harm, so they can make a better upfront judgement about whether they really want to do it, seems sensible.

 

[SS4]

Does anyone find it strange that you can get Married at 16 but not buy a packet of cigarettes until you are 18

Post coital honeymoon burn will have to be supplied by someone else

The former is only with parental permission iirc

 

[Nym]

It makes sense if you think of it like: Buying a packet of cigarettes will inevitably cause harm (unless you throw them away without using them!). By contrast, getting married wouldn't normally by itself cause harm to anyone. Requiring people to be older/more mature before they are allowed to do things that inevitably cause harm, so they can make a better upfront judgement about whether they really want to do it, seems sensible.

By that logic; voting will inevitably cause harm...?

(But soon to be only in E&W)

 

[Clip]

Not for the taxman when theres TWELVE BILLION POUNDS at stake

You have your figures wrong there

https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/Tax and Duty Bulletins/Tobacco1013.xls

the above table shows £8.5Bn from tabs - which includes those imported and declared at teh gate.

And as Darlorich says they will just increase the level of taxation every year anyway.

But getting people to quit, whilst it will have a short term effect on reciepts from tabs - the long term implications of people not dying from smoking related illnesses - including those who dont directly smoke but have it affect them anyway will certainly balance that out.

 

[Nym]

You have your figures wrong there

https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/Tax and Duty Bulletins/Tobacco1013.xls

the above table shows £8.5Bn from tabs - which includes those imported and declared at teh gate.

And as Darlorich says they will just increase the level of taxation every year anyway.

But getting people to quit, whilst it will have a short term effect on reciepts from tabs - the long term implications of people not dying from smoking related illnesses - including those who dont directly smoke but have it affect them anyway will certainly balance that out.

But then an increase in pention and age related illnesses costs...

 

[Clip]

But then an increase in pention and age related illnesses costs...

Which would be levelled out due to the longer term of them being alive and paying in for longer.

Lets face it everythign costs. Smoking is a killer that is preventable and anything they can do to make people not start or even quit once they have is a good thing is it not?Personally I would outlaw it even if it meant going through the hassle of quitting again but we wont reach that point for many years.

Doesnt matter how you try and spin it - it kills. It makes you stink. It makes others stink. It makes your house stink if you smoke in it - I dont even smoke in mine.

I dont get all high and mighty and think I am being persecuted because of the change to the packets - as has been said the stuff inside will still be the same so what does it really matter?

 

[Nym]

Which would be levelled out due to the longer term of them being alive and paying in for longer.

Lets face it everythign costs. Smoking is a killer that is preventable and anything they can do to make people not start or even quit once they have is a good thing is it not?Personally I would outlaw it even if it meant going through the hassle of quitting again but we wont reach that point for many years.

Doesnt matter how you try and spin it - it kills. It makes you stink. It makes others stink. It makes your house stink if you smoke in it - I dont even smoke in mine.

I dont get all high and mighty and think I am being persecuted because of the change to the packets - as has been said the stuff inside will still be the same so what does it really matter?

Oh great, so because less people smoke I won't be able to retire when I'm 65 any more as I'm expected to keep working and paying tax until I'm 70 or 75 because of everyone living longer on average?

 

[Clip]

Oh great, so because less people smoke I won't be able to retire when I'm 65 any more as I'm expected to keep working and paying tax until I'm 70 or 75 because of everyone living longer on average?

You're just being silly now. The revenue from tabs harldy covers smoking related illness and death let alone any other member of the publics healthcare

 

[Nym]

You're just being silly now. The revenue from tabs harldy covers smoking related illness and death let alone any other member of the publics healthcare

It's not only the revenue, but significanly lower state pention and end of life costs because smokers tend to die younger, and usually more suddenly. Requiring less state support and money for said end of life treatment, and significantly less paid in state pention and benifits during retirement.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Oh great, so because less people smoke I won't be able to retire when I'm 65 any more as I'm expected to keep working and paying tax until I'm 70 or 75 because of everyone living longer on average?

Well the issue there isn't really just an issue of smoking. The retirement age was set at 65 at a time when it wasn't common for people to live for decades beyond that age, and it therefore typically provided people with a few years retirement at the end of a long hard working life. If - as seems likely to be the case before too long - most people are living to 85 .... 90 .... 95, and you end up with a retirement that's in many cases almost as long as your working life, then that does seem odd. Not quite what the retirement age was supposed to be there for. In that case you probably need to start asking what is affordable and what the balance between work and retirement ought to be. And yes that may well mean looking at a higher retirement age. But that's not got much to do with the topic under discussion.
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By that logic; voting will inevitably cause harm...?

(But soon to be only in E&W)

He he. Because the voting age is 18? Yes, the ages at which people are allowed to do things are often somewhat arbitrary, I perhaps should have acknowledged that in my previous post.

 

[Butts]

You have your figures wrong there

https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/Tax and Duty Bulletins/Tobacco1013.xls

the above table shows £8.5Bn from tabs - which includes those imported and declared at teh gate.

And as Darlorich says they will just increase the level of taxation every year anyway.

But getting people to quit, whilst it will have a short term effect on reciepts from tabs - the long term implications of people not dying from smoking related illnesses - including those who dont directly smoke but have it affect them anyway will certainly balance that out.

Try adding the VAT on :roll:
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The former is only with parental permission iirc

Not in Scotland

 

[tranzitjim]

Ok, I must declare that I am from the Australian state of Victoria, where this trail is operating.

I do not smoke, never have, and hate being in a smoke infested airspace.

++ A Cigarette company came out with these results. 'Legal product has not dropped', but 'illegal ChopChop has gone up'.

What would we expect the big tobacco comanies to say?

I shall also say, it may be five years before you get the true result.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Try adding the VAT on :roll:

The retail price of tobacco based products does actually include the VAT.

 

[Strat-tastic]

A little off topic but... I used to smoke until I read the book 'The Only To Stop Smoking Permanently' by Allen Carr. I recommend it to all smokers whether they wish to stop or not.

 

[Butts]

The retail price of tobacco based products does actually include the VAT.

Yes, but I think you'll find those HMRC figures (of 8.5 billion or whatever do not).

I can assure you it's well over 11 Billion
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Ok, I must declare that I am from the Australian state of Victoria, where this trail is operating.

I do not smoke, never have, and hate being in a smoke infested airspace.

++ A Cigarette company came out with these results. 'Legal product has not dropped', but 'illegal ChopChop has gone up'.

What would we expect the big tobacco comanies to say?

I shall also say, it may be five years before you get the true result.

Whatever happened to the spirit of crocodile Dundee

We may as well wait five years then.

 

[ungreat]

Being an ex 40 a day man for a year now,our UK government must have a good tax rise up its sleeve to cover tabs revenue...another tax on the working man/woman no doubt!
I miss smoking!

 

[Clip]

Yes, but I think you'll find those HMRC figures (of 8.5 billion or whatever do not).

I can assure you it's well over 11 Billion
.

Ok then, if you are so sure then can you provide me the figures please. I am only stating hte income that HMRC are giving us, I am yet to see anything to back up your claims. If you can then great, that will help.