Plain Clothes Inspectors at Manchester Victoria

[tony_mac]

You want to believe NRES is always right you go ahead, I can't stop you.

Are you saying that it is definitely wrong in this case?
Obviously I would prefer to believe what a Random Internet Stranger says!

 

[221129]

Carried away?

Do you think a police officer would tap somebody on the shoulder and risk startling them? No they would be a bit more professional and if an "excuse me sir" didn't have the desired effect they would catch the person up and approach them without startling them.

You can think that, but it doesn't make it true. Happens almost everyday around here by various officers. No one makes a fuss because it is a simple tap on the shoulder..

 

[Darandio]

My mate has been tapped on the shoulder in the past and he didn't like it, he wanted to punch them after they tapped him

Maybe your friend needs to calm down a little, maybe even seek help?

What the hell is wrong with the world today?

 

[Iskra]

A police officer can touch you using reasonable force, to get you to stop and ascertain who you are. You don't have to tell them anything but they could arrest you to find out who you are.

Nobody else is allowed to touch you, but the law does recognise that you may accidentally touch on busy trains or in busy places, such as at a gig and would protect you from prosecution under those and similar circumstances.

 

[Minilad]

I have been touched to get my attention many many times whilst working. Usually a slight touch on the arm or shoulder as I am walking along a platform and didn't hear the person call me. I have never once thought it was inappropriate or aggressive just a means to an end. Maybe I need to become a bit more of a drama queen or take a few more journeys on the outrage bus

 

[miami]

Ahh yes, the old "I think it's ok, so sod anyone with haphephobia".

More to the point - when did it stop being the Nynex arena?

 

[Minilad]

Which, of course, isn't what I said.
I wonder how many people commenting actually have the rare specific phobia you mention

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

More to the point - when did it stop being the Nynex arena?

Opened July 1995 as the NYNEX Arena
July 1998..........Renamed the Manchester Evening News Arena
January 2013.....Renamed the Phones4U Arena
January 2015.....Renamed the Manchester Arena

 

[Robertj21a]

Which, of course, isn't what I said.
I wonder how many people commenting actually have the rare specific phobia you mention

Have to say that I'd never heard of haphephobia. At least I've learnt a bit more now.

 

[Antman]

A police officer can touch you using reasonable force, to get you to stop and ascertain who you are. You don't have to tell them anything but they could arrest you to find out who you are.

Nobody else is allowed to touch you, but the law does recognise that you may accidentally touch on busy trains or in busy places, such as at a gig and would protect you from prosecution under those and similar circumstances.

A police officer would normally get the persons attention verbally.

If they approach and touch/grab somebody from behind without having identified themselves as a police officer then they do so at their own risk.
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Or Assault. Get him fired, just before Xmas too. Make his family suffer. Lose the car, house, lifestyle. Consign him to a life of weekends seeing the kids in his 1 bedroom flat after the divorce.

Some people just want to feel the power - tap tap, you're fired!

I'm flabbergasted that anybody could post such drivel
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You can think that, but it doesn't make it true. Happens almost everyday around here by various officers. No one makes a fuss because it is a simple tap on the shoulder..

Where is "around here", the place where police officers tap people on the shoulder on a daily basis?

 

[DarloRich]

I am afraid forum rules prevent me from responding to this thread in the manner I would normally choose so this will do: The level of overreaction is incredible! :roll:

 

[Antman]

Maybe your friend needs to calm down a little, maybe even seek help?

What the hell is wrong with the world today?

Tapping somebody on the shoulder can startle them and that's why it is inadvisable

 

[cjmillsnun]

The inspector should've overtaken the OP, then asked them from in front to stop and show their ticket. Tapping on the shoulder from behind is not acceptable. People do suffer from anxiety, for example the OP and it can trigger an anxiety attack. As someone who suffers myself, it is far from pleasant, and the urge to run can be extremely strong. This could make the situation worse.

I wouldn't want the guy fired, but certainly a word with customer service, to perhaps say, without naming the inspector concerned, that this happened and that it should be mentioned that RPIs should if possible approach from in front, overtaking the person they want to stop if necessary.

I know that isn't always possible... But...

 

[Starmill]

This makes no sense. Where does the implication that these two exits aren't for public use come from? It's been a couple of weeks since I was at Victoria, but the last time I was there I used both of them.

 

[WCMLaddict]

On each of the red doors that take you to the arena car park, there is an Emergency Exit sticker.

The doors that take you to McDs also have emergency exit stickers, there is no handles on the station side and when they are properly closed its near impossible to open them when leaving the station. They are also currently barriers blocking them off.

 

[Robertj21a]

For some reason, mountains and molehills come to mind.

 

[Mag_seven]

On each of the red doors that take you to the arena car park, there is an Emergency Exit sticker.

The doors that take you to McDs also have emergency exit stickers, there is no handles on the station side and when they are properly closed its near impossible to open them when leaving the station. They are also currently barriers blocking them off.

Oh dear. What do you do in an emergency then! How do you escape if the emergency exits are blocked off?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Are you saying that it is definitely wrong in this case?
Obviously I would prefer to believe what a Random Internet Stranger says!

Please find attached three photos taken today. Note that two show the doors in question, the stickers showing them to be an emergency exit and no signs indicating it is anything other than an emergency exit. Note that the third photo is facing the opposite direction.

 

[WCMLaddict]

Oh dear. What do you do in an emergency then! How do you escape if the emergency exits are blocked off?

McDs doors are emergency exit doors for arena not for the station, if you need to use them you just push them.
Red doors are emergency exits for the station and work as they should

 

[keppoch69]

Hey guys

This happened to me the other day and I want to ask if anyone works at Victoria, why they won't put some inspectors permanently by the MEN/Trinity Road entrance.

I got off the train as usual, went that way (no ticket inspectors there) then all of a sudden I get tapped by this guy on my shoulder who pulls out an ID card. I can completely see why he assumed I would've dodged the fare (I have that look to me according to my friends) I had a valid season ticket who he just saw then walked off but managed to give me a panic attack which he could see considering I was unable to speak and had to get medication out of my bag but made no effort to apologise.

But yeah, simple question: with like 5 people at the gates constantly and crowds of people doing nothing at the sales desk, would it hurt northern to stick some people by these doors instead of trying to put them out of use? They're a pretty convenient exit point...

Thanks (rant over)!

I feel for you. I wonder if this is a battle between human/man, and machine/ticket barrier?
As in, busier/larger stations, we know to stick our card into the orifice/slot on offer and it spits it out, or retains as needs be.
I am also wondering, when IS an exit, not an exit? If there are no ticket barriers, then employ a human to do same at an exit.
I have never been to Manchester land. If the same was to be done to me within the Glasgow area, I would probably keep walking, until the said creature came face to face to me with an identification/warrant card about his person.

 

[Minilad]

For some reason, mountains and molehills come to mind.

A RUK speciality more and more it seems

 

[Antman]

The inspector should've overtaken the OP, then asked them from in front to stop and show their ticket. Tapping on the shoulder from behind is not acceptable. People do suffer from anxiety, for example the OP and it can trigger an anxiety attack. As someone who suffers myself, it is far from pleasant, and the urge to run can be extremely strong. This could make the situation worse.

I wouldn't want the guy fired, but certainly a word with customer service, to perhaps say, without naming the inspector concerned, that this happened and that it should be mentioned that RPIs should if possible approach from in front, overtaking the person they want to stop if necessary.

I know that isn't always possible... But...

Exactly, he probably just needs a bit of 'retraining', although I'd have thought common sense would tell you not to tap somebody on the shoulder from behind, assuming that's what happened of course

 

[Mojo]

Please find attached three photos taken today. Note that two show the doors in question, the stickers showing them to be an emergency exit and no signs indicating it is anything other than an emergency exit. Note that the third photo is facing the opposite direction.

I don't see any indication on these doors that they are not to be used by customers exiting the station. I have seen signs in London that point to "exit only in an emergency," but next to signs to reach other parts of the station, it doesn't mean you can't go through that area.

Last time I was there, there was a sign with an arrow telling customers to go out one of these doors to reach McDonalds.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

One might well ask who exactly owns these doors...the owners of the stadium or the railway, when any remedial works such as new door closers require fitting.

 

[Starmill]

Please find attached three photos taken today. Note that two show the doors in question, the stickers showing them to be an emergency exit and no signs indicating it is anything other than an emergency exit. Note that the third photo is facing the opposite direction.

Given these have both been exits for years, I don't see what has changed that might make anyone think it's no longer an exit. Given most stations are gaining exits, why are they being closed at Manchester Victoria? That's ludicrous.

Regarding your third photo the only thing I can see of significance that you would include it is that it says no entry on the wall and way out on the floor. So now we have conflicting signage about which way to go also.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Seems pretty clear those doors are now not for normal use, though changing habits is hard.

What is the normal way from the station to the arena now - do you have to go outside?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The thread title refers to "Plain Clothes Inspectors". Being unsure of what type of position is so involved, can I ask the question ...."will those named people be empowered with the same powers as accorded to a member of the BTP"?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The thread title refers to "Plain Clothes Inspectors". Being unsure of what type of position is so involved, can I ask the question ...."will those named people be empowered with the same powers as accorded to a member of the BTP"?

RPIs, were they not? So no.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

A police officer can touch you using reasonable force, to get you to stop and ascertain who you are. You don't have to tell them anything but they could arrest you to find out who you are.

Nobody else is allowed to touch you, but the law does recognise that you may accidentally touch on busy trains or in busy places, such as at a gig and would protect you from prosecution under those and similar circumstances.

rubbish

care to provide a proper reference to that ...
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RPIs, were they not? So no.

but hve hte powers of designated staff under both railway specific legislation and other relevant any place legislation if applied for .

 

[Tetchytyke]

rubbish

care to provide a proper reference to that ...

Anyone can arrest a person. However the grounds they can do it on are different.

A police officer can arrest someone if they have a reasonable suspicion that an offence has taken place and they have a reasonable suspicion that the arrestee committed it, or if they have a reasonable suspicion that an offence is about to take place.

A lay person can arrest someone only where they know an offence has taken place and they have a reasonable suspicion that the arrestee has committed it. If they are mistaken about an offence having taken place then they do not have any legal protection from the person they have detained.

In this case an RPI could detain someone for fare evasion, but if it turns out (as in the OP's case) that they are not evading a fare then they are leaving themselves open to charges of assault or battery.

Lay people do not have the same protection as police officers if they are mistaken, and it is for this reason that most lay people (e.g. security guards, RPIs) are encouraged by their employers not to attempt to detain people.