Pink reader touch after travelling via Zone 1

[Kilopylae]

An acquaintance (actually an ex-girlfriend) has asked me for some advice about a fares technicality and I'm not sure who's correct.

She was travelling from Hillingdon LU to Loughton LU. There are two fares available for this journey: the normal fare, and "Avoiding Zone 1 via West Hampstead (or Finchley Road/Finchley Road & Frognal) and Stratford", achieved with a pink reader touch at Stratford. Importantly, the Avoiding Zone 1 fare only requires a touch at Stratford, i.e. not West Hampstead or Finchley Road. The journey she actually took was Metropolitan line, then Jubilee line to Waterloo, where she met a friend on the Tube platforms (i.e. without leaving the barriers), then Jubilee to Stratford, and finally Central line to Loughton. At Stratford, she walked over to the Overground platforms to tap the pink reader, so she paid the cheaper Avoiding Zone 1 fare despite travelling via Waterloo.

Her friend pulled her up on this, saying it was "no better than fare dodging" and that she'd get in trouble if she was caught. She argues it's a valid "loophole", as she did change at Stratford so did validly touch the pink reader (i.e. it's not "her fault" that the system interprets this as avoiding Zone 1 - the cheaper fare is for changing at Stratford and she did).

Can anyone offer any thoughts as to whether or not this was illegal/against the rules or just a bit spivvy?

 

[yorkie]

Very grey area!

It sounds like she is intending to avoid paying the correct fare, however this may be difficult to prove, if not admitted.

What text exactly is written at the pink readers?

(The other complication is that this may risk exceeding the maximum journey time, but I appreciate that isn't the question!)

@MikeWh might have some views on this

 

[Haywain]

It sounds as though there's a failure in the set up for that journey. The route taken should be clear as either West Hampstead or Finchley Road require out of station interchanges which would be recorded by touching out and back in. One might think that doing this would be more effective than applying the need for a touch on a pink reader at Stratford which can be done without avoiding zone 1.

The other complication is that this may risk exceeding the maximum journey time.

Given that 170 minutes is allowed for the whole journey, that would take some effort!

 

[Gaelan]

My understanding is that Oyster has no “routing rules” in the way that NR tickets do - providing you have tapped in and out, (optionally) tapped any pink readers you pass, and adhered to the maximum joruney times, if TfL undercharges you, that’s their problem.

 

[MikeWh]

It's certainly beyond the spirit of the system, but, as @Gaelan says, you've done what you're told to do in general terms. There's a reason why the pink readers are only on platforms 1 and 2, which is that they are only intended to be used via the North London Line. Depending on the way the system is set up it would not surprise me if the trick didn't work in the reverse direction.

I'd also say that to make that detour in the middle of the rush hour would be quite a time penalty.

 

[MallardLP]

The non Zone 1 fare requires the interchange from Tube to London Overground at West Hampstead (or the Finchley’s) and a touch on the pink reader at Stratford. The touches on the gates to change modes tells the system of the route taken. Plus, the website says ;

Avoiding Zone 1 via West Hampstead (or Finchley Road/Finchley Road & Frognal) and Stratford.

She's misused the pink reader and if she makes a habit of it ,TfL will pick up on it

 

[Egg Centric]

Very grey area!

It sounds like she is intending to avoid paying the correct fare, however this may be difficult to prove, if not admitted.

What text exactly is written at the pink readers?

The text says "When changing trains here touch your card on this reader if using Oyster pay as you go for any part of your journey"

There's no routing rules and the "spirit of the rules" really doesn't morally apply (imo) when dealing with an organisation like TfL that prosecutes well beyond the "spirit of the rules" of its own bylaws.

Sounds to me like she may be the "one that got away"!

 

[MikeWh]

She's misused the pink reader and if she makes a habit of it ,TfL will pick up on it

Do you speak authoritavely on this matter? Knowing quite a bit about the way the Oyster system works I doubt that anything will come of it at all.

 

[John R]

There's no routing rules and the "spirit of the rules" really doesn't morally apply (imo) when dealing with an organisation like TfL that prosecutes well beyond the "spirit of the rules" of its own bylaws.

Really? TfL is known for being harsh in that it doesn’t offer settlements and goes straight to prosecution, but on what basis do you make this statement?

 

[Ralph Ayres]

The Single Fare Finder is pretty clear that the cheaper route is "Avoiding Zone 1 via West Hampstead (or Finchley Road/Finchley Road & Frognal) and Stratford" so anyone checking that would know that travelling via Zone 1 is not a legitimate route and just using a pink reader at Stratford doesn't change that. Anyone making the journey via Zone 1 wouldn't pass a pink reader at Stratford without deliberately going significantly out of their way so could not claim to have used it having been misled by the signage. TfL may well do occasional spot checks of people using the pink readers at certain stations to pick up on fraudulent use based on where they approach the reader from (or even where they go after touching?); a similar "loophole" at West Brompton was pretty much closed off by a few such exercises. Someone may well get away with such a trick for a while but there's always the chance of being caught and done for fraudulent travel.

Given the hassle of battling across the chaos that is Stratford station to reach the pink reader then back again to continue on the Central line, I think I'd just use the cheaper route anyway if I was worried about the cost!

 

[Benjwri]

The Single Fare Finder is pretty clear that the cheaper route is "Avoiding Zone 1 via West Hampstead (or Finchley Road/Finchley Road & Frognal) and Stratford" so anyone checking that would know that travelling via Zone 1 is not a legitimate route and just using a pink reader at Stratford doesn't change that. Anyone making the journey via Zone 1 wouldn't pass a pink reader at Stratford without deliberately going significantly out of their way so could not claim to have used it having been misled by the signage. TfL may well do occasional spot checks of people using the pink readers at certain stations to pick up on fraudulent use based on where they approach the reader from (or even where they go after touching?); a similar "loophole" at West Brompton was pretty much closed off by a few such exercises. Someone may well get away with such a trick for a while but there's always the chance of being caught and done for fraudulent travel.

Given the wording on the readers, which only tells you to tap if you are changing trains at the station, something they are definitely doing, and the fact that there is no requirement to check the Single Fare Finder, in my opinion TfL would have a very hard time prosecuting them. I doubt we'll ever know unless someone does get taken to court, but as far as I can find there is nothing in the bylaws or conditions of travel which prohibits this behaviour.

Certainly a very plausible defence off the top of my head could be they got disorientated one day and ended up on the Overground platforms, where they followed the instructions on the reader, as they were changing trains, and tapped. Upon seeing on their bank statement this made their journey cheaper they could continue to seek out the reader. It most certainly isn't unheard of to have to seek out a reader you genuinely need at some stations.