Pink reader (again)

[amarshe]

I often travel Moorgate to Forest Hill, using the Elizabeth line to Whitechapel, changing there for the Windrush line down to Forest Hill.

Yesterday I read this page https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/touch-pink-card-reader-when-changing-trains#on-this-page-2 and didn’t use the pink reader, as it suggests I don’t need to. But yes I was charged £3.70 rather than the usual £3.10!

What’s the reason for this anomaly? Surely the system can tell that I didn’t use National Rail - eg no transfer at London Bridge?

 

[CyrusWuff]

LTFares has the answer. (As does the TfL Single Fare Finder, of course, but LTFares makes it easier to link to the specific journey.)

To get the lower fare you either need to touch on a pink validator at Whitechapel or Canada Water, or interchange between Shadwell LO and Shadwell DLR.

It's not clear what the default route is, given there's an explicit higher fare when changing at one of the Southern terminals or Balham.

 

[CheapAndNerdy]

fastjp.com shows journeys via Highbury and Islington, so that's likely the expected default route.

 

[Haywain]

It's not clear what the default route is, given there's an explicit higher fare when changing at one of the Southern terminals or Balham.

The default route is anything that doesn't involve the pink validators or interchanges you mentioned.

 

[MikeWh]

What’s the reason for this anomaly? Surely the system can tell that I didn’t use National Rail - eg no transfer at London Bridge?

You could do Moorgate - Farringdon - London Bridge - Forest Hill.

Pink readers are generally to say you've avoided zone 1, but not always. The one at Highbury & Islington can say that you've avoided zone 3.

 

[amarshe]

Ah thanks all. So it’s just safer to do what I was doing before yesterday and always tap the pink reader. I hadn’t even considered going via Farringdon and thameslink to London Bridge.

 

[jon81uk]

I often travel Moorgate to Forest Hill, using the Elizabeth line to Whitechapel, changing there for the Windrush line down to Forest Hill.

Yesterday I read this page https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/touch-pink-card-reader-when-changing-trains#on-this-page-2 and didn’t use the pink reader, as it suggests I don’t need to. But yes I was charged £3.70 rather than the usual £3.10!

What’s the reason for this anomaly? Surely the system can tell that I didn’t use National Rail - eg no transfer at London Bridge?

The TfL Single Fare Finder shows you need to use the pink reader when changing at Whitechapel.

 

[amarshe]

It was petty of me, but citing https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/touch-pink-card-reader-when-changing-trains#on-this-page-2 TfL gave me my 60p refund. Yes the single fare finder says to touch the pink reader, but how many people check that Any I knows now to tap the pink readers regardless.

 

[SirAlf]

Something I’ve never properly understood…. Is there ever any downside to touching a pink reader if you pass one, regardless of the actual trip you are making?

 

[Haywain]

but citing https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/touch-pink-card-reader-when-changing-trains#on-this-page-2

I’m struggling to see how you read that page as suggesting that you don’t need to touch the pink reader.

 

[plugwash]

"If you're travelling across London but not through Zone 1"

 

[Haywain]

"If you're travelling across London but not through Zone 1"

The OP wasn't travelling through zone 1, but from zone 1.

 

[MrJeeves]

Something I’ve never properly understood…. Is there ever any downside to touching a pink reader if you pass one, regardless of the actual trip you are making?

Route Validators (Pink Readers) – Oyster Fares Central

oysterfares.com

Note: Touching pink readers can sometimes mean you are charged more. This only happens on journeys which start or end outside zones 1-9. The anomaly usually gets fixed soon after it’s spotted.

I'm not sure of any specific examples, though.

 

[MikeWh]

Something I’ve never properly understood…. Is there ever any downside to touching a pink reader if you pass one, regardless of the actual trip you are making?

Not in normal use. There are some edge cases; you must not touch a pink reader at the station where you end your journey as that could trigger a different fare; if you're using a travelcard and haven't touched in and touch a pink reader outside of your zones it might cause an unexpected charge (eg hold a zone 1-3 travelcard and touch the pink reader at Richmond on a journey that isn't priced to go via zone 4).

Route Validators (Pink Readers) – Oyster Fares Central

oysterfares.com

I'm not sure of any specific examples, though.

I've not seen any recently. Last one I can remember involved Gatwick years ago.

 

[Paul AC]

As I read it, https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/touch-pink-card-reader-when-changing-trains is potentially confusing.

It tells you that you need to use the pink card reader "If you're travelling across London but not through Zone 1", and provides a handy map showing an example of such a routing, from a Zone 3 station to a Zone 3 station via a Zone 3 pink card reader.

However it doesn't say anything about using the pink card reader on a journey such the OP's journey which started inside Zone 1. Yes, if you go to the bottom of the page and use the Single Fare Finder, you will find the answer, as @jon81uk has shown, but it is not all obvious. Perhaps another example/map is needed.

The simple use of the word 'through' is also possibly confusing: if I travel from one Zone 1 station to another Zone 1 station, am I not also travelling 'through' Zone 1?

 

[MikeWh]

However it doesn't say anything about using the pink card reader on a journey such the OP's journey which started inside Zone 1. Yes, if you go to the bottom of the page and use the Single Fare Finder, you will find the answer, as @jon81uk has shown, but it is not all obvious. Perhaps another example/map is needed.

Sadly the use cases for alternative meanings are limited and I guess they think it might confuse more people than it helps.

The simple use of the word 'through' is also possibly confusing: if I travel from one Zone 1 station to another Zone 1 station, am I not also travelling 'through' Zone 1?

Yes, but there are no pink readers in zone 1 itself, so you won't pass one.

 

[paninaro]

I might be misunderstanding so bear with me if I am ...
I assumed the "default route" would be the most direct/quickest and Oyster would assume you'd taken than in the absence of taps to indicate otherwise. In this case to me those routes would be either via Whitechapel or London Bridge, both which seem to be specified as *not* the default route.
Is my assumption wrong? Am I just misunderstanding the benefit of going via Highbury and Islington (or some other route I haven't thought of)

 

[michael8]

As I read it, https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/touch-pink-card-reader-when-changing-trains is potentially confusing.

It tells you that you need to use the pink card reader "If you're travelling across London but not through Zone 1", and provides a handy map showing an example of such a routing, from a Zone 3 station to a Zone 3 station via a Zone 3 pink card reader.

However it doesn't say anything about using the pink card reader on a journey such the OP's journey which started inside Zone 1. Yes, if you go to the bottom of the page and use the Single Fare Finder, you will find the answer, as @jon81uk has shown, but it is not all obvious. Perhaps another example/map is needed.

The simple use of the word 'through' is also possibly confusing: if I travel from one Zone 1 station to another Zone 1 station, am I not also travelling 'through' Zone 1?

Not to argue with you, but the correct word in that case would be "travelling in Zone 1" (rather than through).

 

[Paul AC]

Not to argue with you, but the correct word in that case would be "travelling in Zone 1" (rather than through).

or better "travelling within Zone 1"? Either way, none of this wording would be acceptable in any form of engineering specification, which I've been writing, reviewing and using for over 40 years.

 

[michael8]

or better "travelling within Zone 1"? Either way, none of this wording would be acceptable in any form of engineering specification, which I've been writing, reviewing and using for over 40 years.

Yes, right

 

[zero]

Is there a table of single fares by zone and mode? I can't find one on the TfL site or MikeWh's site.

LTfares says both the £3.70 fare and £3.10 (now increased to £3.30) are "national-rail" so what's the actual difference?

 

[MrJeeves]

Is there a table of single fares by zone and mode? I can't find one on the TfL site or MikeWh's site.

LTfares says both the £3.70 fare and £3.10 (now increased to £3.30) are "national-rail" so what's the actual difference?

Are you looking for this?

Fares Guide & Tables – Oyster Fares Central

oysterfares.com

 

[zero]

Are you looking for this?

Fares Guide & Tables – Oyster Fares Central

oysterfares.com

Thanks! Slightly confusing as Mike has made an individual page for each year's travelcard prices but on this page uses a drop-down menu for previous years.