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Pinch point locations for congestion on the GB rail network?

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tbtc

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Some "bottlenecks" are only bottlenecks because of the large number of two/three coach services passing through.

Rather than spending (tens of?) millions of pounds, we could just write a simple reliable timetable where services run at the maximum length permitted by the infrastructure.

Welwyn is a bit different as the majority of services will be 200m+ long (a handful of GC/HT180s, but they are a tiny share of the total number of services over the viaduct each day). But, as others have said, the line isn't four track all the way to Peterborough so removing this double track section over the viaduct would only push the problem slightly further up the line.

The biggest nonsense is the Slade Lane issue - only a problem because we have so many long distance (and therefore un-coordinated) services run by short trains (or at least trains shorter than the infrastructure will permit). Cut it down to a well co-ordinated six services per hour on the Airport branch (say, three non-stop, three stoppers), reduce the number of services doing Stockport-Oxford Road and Airport-MainPiccadillyShed and you remove most of the problem.

Same goes for the OP's mention of the junction outside Leeds - remove the need for services from (all of) Bradford/ Huddersfield/ Wakefield to get through to York/Hull and you can run Leeds station as three or four independent stations - so no cross contamination between the different lines - then just increase the length of services on each line (rather than, say, running seven or eight two/three coach DMUs per hour on the Calder Valley...).

However, in the old Southern Region, there's not the same simple solutions - services are often already at the maximum possible length and most services are following a pretty simple clock face timetable and simple pattern (i.e. get everything to/from Waterloo or Victoria or wherever).

And New Street is a nightmare. I can't see the Liverpool/Walsall - New Street - Euston services helping that much but hopefully someone somewhere has a plan...
 
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Melancholia

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Didcot East Jn, especially at peak times. One minute delay on a service, and it affects many services.
 

The Ham

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If only Railtrack didn't decide that they didn't need that extra space offered up by the BullRing development. A very shortsighted decision in my opinion.

As for pinch points on the Southern / South Western, I'd certainly put both Basingstoke - St Deny's - Southampton Central on that list. Basingstoke's pinch point comes from it being in effect 2 separate junctions with a lot of north - south coast freight passing through, on top of the South Western services, Cross Country and GW stoppers. The section between Shawford and Worting Junction consisting of double track doesn't help at times either.

One thing that would help Basingstoke would be to electrify the line towards Salisbury, so that you could turn the Basingstoke Stoppers around to the West of Basingstoke.

There's due to be a lot of new houses at Manydown (3,250, so about 8,000 people) which is between Basingstoke and Oakley, build a station there and turn the stoppers around there (as they are just after the Salisbury services) and it could be done with no extra trains (due to the circa 25 minute turn around at Basingstoke) but would free up significant platform time at Basingstoke and 2 flat junction moments per hour.

It would probably cost a fairly small amount (say £15 million), which although would be partly made obsolete by the grade separation of Basingstoke should help whilst those works are carried out.

Even if it only added 100,000 to the network per year paying £3 it would more than pay for itself over a 60 year period (the extra ongoing costs would be small). (Being in mind that Hook with a population of 8,000 adds 800,000 to the network that's not beyond the realms of possiblity. Likewise at least some of the upfront costs could be from developer contributions, in that £1,000 would be enough to pay for the station costs of about £3 million).
 

The Planner

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If only Railtrack didn't decide that they didn't need that extra space offered up by the BullRing development. A very shortsighted decision in my opinion.
You are going to have to sell that one to me, it wouldn't have given you any more platforms, just extra approach tracks. They wouldn't have been that much use considering Proof House flyover would end up being the middle set and then having to get the Cross City over to the high side.
 

Ken H

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You are going to have to sell that one to me, it wouldn't have given you any more platforms, just extra approach tracks. They wouldn't have been that much use considering Proof House flyover would end up being the middle set and then having to get the Cross City over to the high side.
maybe a couple of bays would help. Like the one they made that the Liverpool EMU's use. 4C? They could probably make a bay in the old mail sidings - plat 13?
 

Ianno87

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The Ham

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Even though the Croydon Area Remodelling Scheme (https://www.networkrail.co.uk/runni...s/south-east/croydon-area-remodelling-scheme/) is in development, and the Thameslink Programme happened, alongside HS2?

I'm getting bored of this 'stop HS2 and spend on other stuff' rhetoric, when it's repeatedly demonstrated that HS2 *and* the other stuff are both happening...

Indeed, look at the impact of NR spending on enhancements over the last 3 years (as HS2 has increased its spending).

View media item 3339
Taken from the NR accounts.
 

class 9

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Hi,

What are the most busiest and congested pinch points in the UK? I know Leeds Whitehall Jn can get congested, but where are others that people are aware of please?

Thanks.
If they reopened Holbeck viaduct to Gelderd Rd Jct, you could route XC, LNER & Northerns Donny and Sheffield services that way, that would free up a lot of capacity at Whitehall jct.
 

RichJF

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The double track section between Three Bridges & Brighton. Major major disruption when even minor things go wrong.

Windmill Bridge Junction (north of Croydon)

Herne Hill (TL crossing on the flat across a SE mainline. No fix in sight).
 

rower40

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Tye Green Curry Junction to Coopers Lane Junction.
If those names mean nothing, then it's the 1.1-mile-long Single-track tunnel underneath the runway at Stansted Airport. Anglia Zone/Territory/Region's most intensively-timetabled stretch of single track.
London's third airport. "Oh no, we'll never need more than one train at a time travelling to/from that location...."
 

Ken H

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Indeed, look at the impact of NR spending on enhancements over the last 3 years (as HS2 has increased its spending).

View media item 3339
Taken from the NR accounts.
A few years ago I took a train from West croydon to Victoria. It weaved in and out of many flat junctions on its way. Do you really think HS2 is a greater priority than fixing all the flat junctions in busy S london?
 

Ken H

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Tye Green Curry Junction to Coopers Lane Junction.
If those names mean nothing, then it's the 1.1-mile-long Single-track tunnel underneath the runway at Stansted Airport. Anglia Zone/Territory/Region's most intensively-timetabled stretch of single track.
London's third airport. "Oh no, we'll never need more than one train at a time travelling to/from that location...."
Would not have added much to the initial project costs. cost a fortune to fix it now. Would you need a runway possession?
 

The Ham

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A few years ago I took a train from West croydon to Victoria. It weaved in and out of many flat junctions on its way. Do you really think HS2 is a greater priority than fixing all the flat junctions in busy S london?

No, but it's not a question of HS2 or fixing those problems.

The point I was making was that there's still ongoing spending on enhancements to the existing network (in fact it's been going up even though spending on HS2 has also been going up).

Over time is likely that some of the enhancements spending will come from ticket sales vs taxes (currently there's about £250 million of subsidy before enhancement spending).
 

d9009alycidon

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Anywhere from Carstairs on the run in to Glasgow Central can produce random delays due to the mix of WCML expresses and local services, coming into Glasgow last Friday we were 3min ahead of schedule at Carstairs but a couple of minutes late in Central due to a log jam ahead of us, previous Pendo was late, which delayed a couple of locals waiting to join the main line which then delayed us as we had to wait for them to clear the Uddingston and Cambuslang stops, our train in turn delayed an Edinburgh - Ayr service which they held at Carstairs to allow the two Pendo's to pass
 

Ken H

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No, but it's not a question of HS2 or fixing those problems.

The point I was making was that there's still ongoing spending on enhancements to the existing network (in fact it's been going up even though spending on HS2 has also been going up).

Over time is likely that some of the enhancements spending will come from ticket sales vs taxes (currently there's about £250 million of subsidy before enhancement spending).
and how long do you think government will continue to pile cash into the railway? They will say 'we are spending record amounts on the railway' as they cut on the legcy railway. Sorry, but I am highly sceptical about government.
 

The Ham

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and how long do you think government will continue to pile cash into the railway? They will say 'we are spending record amounts on the railway' as they cut on the legcy railway. Sorry, but I am highly sceptical about government.

I too am sceptical about government, however I also look at the evidence.

Currently the evidence shows that the amount NR are spending on enhancements is at a record high, and had been growing even with the extra money being spent on HS2.

The CP6 spending had been set and shows that there will be significant amount of (non HS2) spending on the railways.

Unless something changes then I'm currently minded to look as HS2 spending as in addition to that on the existing network, rather than an either/or thing which those opposed to HS2 see it as, even though there's no evidence which I can find which shows this.

However if someone can find the evidence of this then I'll be happy to review my position. Please feel free to provide it, anyone?
 

The Planner

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maybe a couple of bays would help. Like the one they made that the Liverpool EMU's use. 4C? They could probably make a bay in the old mail sidings - plat 13?
For what though? The only thing that could use them would be the Leicester and Stansted trains.
 

The Planner

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Doesn't solve a problem that exists putting Walsall trains in there, lots of money for no real gain so not a mistake in not taking up the offer.
 

Ianno87

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Tye Green Curry Junction to Coopers Lane Junction.
If those names mean nothing, then it's the 1.1-mile-long Single-track tunnel underneath the runway at Stansted Airport. Anglia Zone/Territory/Region's most intensively-timetabled stretch of single track.
London's third airport. "Oh no, we'll never need more than one train at a time travelling to/from that location...."

Would not have added much to the initial project costs. cost a fortune to fix it now. Would you need a runway possession?

I understand that provision was left when the single track tunnel was bored that space was left to come back and bore a second tunnel. There seems to be some 'obvious' space at the Tye Green end.
 

EM2

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Some "bottlenecks" are only bottlenecks because of the large number of two/three coach services passing through.

Rather than spending (tens of?) millions of pounds, we could just write a simple reliable timetable where services run at the maximum length permitted by the infrastructure.
Taking Leeds as an example, you have a number of platforms that are divided into sections. Therefore you can have have four trains (as an example) that serve different destinations using the same platform face. If you 'run at the maximum length permitted by the infrastructure', then you have one train that serves one destination and that fills the platform.
 

Ianno87

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_toommm_

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Sheffield, both North and South of the station.

South of the station you have two tracks (excluding Heeley Goods Loop) to Dore & Totley, which requires a crossover plus wrong line running for a short while for the 3x an hour services to and 3x an hour service from Manchester. The chord to link the MML north of Chesterfield with the Hope Valley is too short for freight trains that use it, so it blocks the MML or Hope Valley if it has to stop on the loop due to signal overlaps.

North of the station, you have potentially 5 platforms going North, with some services timed to depart only 3 minutes apart (xx:02 to Leeds, xx:05 to Adwick, and xx:21 to Scotland, and xx:24 to Hull and beyond). Platforms 3 and 4 are intensely used but only come out onto one track, and CrossCountry can easily get trapped behind a local stopper all the way to Moorthorpe Goods Loop.
 

Killingworth

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Sheffield, both North and South of the station.

South of the station you have two tracks (excluding Heeley Goods Loop) to Dore & Totley, which requires a crossover plus wrong line running for a short while for the 3x an hour services to and 3x an hour service from Manchester. The chord to link the MML north of Chesterfield with the Hope Valley is too short for freight trains that use it, so it blocks the MML or Hope Valley if it has to stop on the loop due to signal overlaps.

North of the station, you have potentially 5 platforms going North, with some services timed to depart only 3 minutes apart (xx:02 to Leeds, xx:05 to Adwick, and xx:21 to Scotland, and xx:24 to Hull and beyond). Platforms 3 and 4 are intensely used but only come out onto one track, and CrossCountry can easily get trapped behind a local stopper all the way to Moorthorpe Goods Loop.
South of the station the original 2 Sheaf Valley tracks to Dore and Totley were found to be inadequate after the Hope Valley line opened in 1893. By 1903 2 further tracks were laid into Sheffield.

In the aftermath of the Beeching era the stopping services were withdrawn and all the stations closed in 1969. By 1985 two tracks were lifted and subsequently the remaining two have been slewed to improve speeds. A Tesco superstore has been built on the trackbed and other obstructions now exist that will make even providing a third continuous track very difficult. That is the suggestion when HS2 adds further pressure on the route.

The bottleneck through Dore Station and the Junction to the North should be relieved when (if) the Hope Valley Capacity Improvement Scheme is finally completed in 2022. That is known to have been in the planning stages since before 2005. The chord between Dore West and Dore South Junctions is being extended at the same time, as is the Heeley loop and another loop is to be built at Bamford.

These improvements should reduce delays on trains using the south end of Sheffield Station. Destinations to which delayed trains are heading range around the nation, like Southampton, Reading, Plymouth, Penzance, London, Liverpool, Norwich, Cleethorpes, Manchester Airport, Newcastle, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen and places in between.

Northbound travellers are frequently held between Dronfield and Sheffield, often at the signal where the mainline platform used to be at Dore and Totley. All these trains will be passing their delays on to other services in giant ripples across the system.

The problem has been officially recognised for at least 15 years, and probably longer. In the meantime passenger numbers and train services have multiplied .

At the North end leading away to the North and East there are two tracks through a rock cutting and tunnel between buildings, a major road sytem and close to the River Sheaf and Sheffield canal. Before HS2 can go further north that needs widening - it needs it now. HS2 has no budget for that. It's down to Northern Powerhouse Rail.

So, with potential choke points at both ends of Sheffield Midland Station, operating to a timetable is rather a lottery for crews and passengers alike. If the one to the south has been recognised for so long, why has it not been resolved? Why is there not even a plan for the North end?, Why are so many more across the country being delayed or ignored?

The railway network needs more than a few pinch points being resolved, but recognising them, and planning their elimination more quickly, would be a start
 
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