Pilot Working On The S & C

[RichmondCommu]

Hello everyone,

Following on from larger engines being introduced on to the S & C in the 1930s I'm curious to know what the policy was for using pilot locomotives on the S & C.

As an example at sometime during the summer of 1979 Richmond Commu and I saw a class 25 pilot a class 45 on a 'down' mixed freight as far as Garsdale before the class 25 returned south later on. Whilst the train was lengthy one assumed that a class 45 would have been capable of dragging it over the 'long drag' without stalling and so the additional loco was something of a suprise.

Your thoughts would be very welcome.

Kind regards,

Essex Ram

 

[randyrippley]

Both blue star coupling code......were they in multiple or separately manned?

May be a daft question, but could a driver passed on a 25 but not a Peak, drive a 25/Peak multiple with the 25 leading?

 

[Cowley]

Both blue star coupling code......were they in multiple or separately manned?

May be a daft question, but could a driver passed on a 25 but not a Peak, drive a 25/Peak multiple with the 25 leading?

That is an interesting question. I wouldn’t have thought so but would like to know.
I don’t think 45s/46s had multiple working equipment. Class 40s (which sometimes paired up with 25s) did, but not the 45s.

 

[Western Lord]

Both blue star coupling code......were they in multiple or separately manned?

May be a daft question, but could a driver passed on a 25 but not a Peak, drive a 25/Peak multiple with the 25 leading?

I believe that back in the day drivers were "passed" on a wider variety of traction than seems to be the case today.

 

[ac6000cw]

It might have been the 45 had a problem or the train was over its rated load on that line. As the 25 came back south later I'd guess both locos were separately crewed.

Given that 45s and 25s were common all over the ex-Midland Railway routes, I'd have expected drivers in that area to be passed on both types.

 

[ac6000cw]

In those days on the 'Midland' it seemed that if a freight needed Type-4 power, it would get a 45, 46 or 47, and if they weren't available then a pair of 25s was the usual substitute. If things were a bit desperate in the summer, sometimes a pair of 25s would turn up on a passenger working - aural delights if you were in the front coach .

 

[70014IronDuke]

It might have been the 45 had a problem or the train was over its rated load on that line. As the 25 came back south later I'd guess both locos were separately crewed. ...

You might be correct, but I somehow doubt it. What problem could it have that left the driver and control deciding: Ok, we'll put a Cl 25 on as far as Garsdale and then send it forward with just the train engine? Either the 45 had a problem, eg field diverts failing to cut in, and the best thing would have been to fail the loco at some convenient point (Skipton? Hellified?) or it was fine to go to Carlisle.
It is possible, I suppose, that the load was above the limit for a Cl 45, but that too is unlikely. The S&C was built to take heavy freights, the problem for steam was the gradients were long - as you know, the Long Drag.

My first thoughts were that it was an unfitted or partially fitted freight and the Cl 25 was needed not for traction, but for braking. But the the loco came off at Garsdale! That kind of ruined that idea.

If I had to bet, my money would be that it was on a test run, perhaps after an exam or some sort of fault-finding remedial action. And the easiest way to find a path and give it some load was to put it on a freight. Once the engineer decided it was ok (or not) it was taken off at Garsdale as it would no longer be working under any load to speak of.

 

[ac6000cw]

Good thought (and sounds quite plausible as a test trip out from Holbeck).

 

[GusB]

I always thought that the Peaks were blue star, so could be worked in multiple with 25s etc - I hadn't considered that a driver who was passed on the leading loco may not have been passed on the one behind.

I believe that back in the day drivers were "passed" on a wider variety of traction than seems to be the case today.

Where there were two locos which were technically compatible, but the driver of the leading loco wasn't passed on both types, what did happen? Did they simply bring in a second crew?

 

[RichmondCommu]

Many thanks for all of your interesting responses. In addition to the unusual double header it was the only time that I can recall a locomotive entering the sidings to the north of the station.

 

[lyndhurst25]

From page 55 of the book "On the Settle & Carlisle Route" by T G Flinders:

"Another link with the past is the occasional piloting of heavy freights as far as Garsdale. No 25206 assists 45044 on 1 June 1979. The Class 25 later returned light engine."