Pick Up / Set Down

[tigerroar]

Realtime Trains | 1W03 1730 London Paddington to Hereford | 09/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 1W03 1730 departure from London Paddington to Hereford on 09/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

This train stops at Swindon to pick up passengers only. How do they stop them getting off though?

 

[43066]

Realtime Trains | 1W03 1730 London Paddington to Hereford | 09/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 1W03 1730 departure from London Paddington to Hereford on 09/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

This train stops at Swindon to pick up passengers only. How do they stop them getting off though?

They won’t stop people, as such, it just wont be advertised as a stop and advance tickets to Swindon won’t be available for that train.

 

[zwk500]

Realtime Trains | 1W03 1730 London Paddington to Hereford | 09/05/2023

Real-time train running information for 1W03 1730 departure from London Paddington to Hereford on 09/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

This train stops at Swindon to pick up passengers only. How do they stop them getting off though?

They don't really, but the Swindon stop will not be advertised at Paddington or Reading and passengers would not be able to buy advances for London or Reading to Swindon on that train.

I don't know whether a London to Swindon Anytime open would be valid on the train, but I imagine the number of people who'd try it would be small enough they can ignore it.

 

[43066]

Ask @TT-ONR-NRN what happens if you do the opposite and board a train that has stopped to set down passengers only.

 

[tigerroar]

That was going to be my next question!

 

[12LDA28C]

Many years ago when LHCS was still a thing on the WCML, Intercity departures from Euston would pick up at Watford and Intercity trains into Euston would set down at Watford, I boarded at Watford going south and alighted at Watford going north many times, nothing was ever said as ticket checks on Down services generally didn't take place until after Watford. It was just done to stop Watford passengers taking up seats out of Euston, to ensure long-distance passengers got priority and could get a seat.

The Swindon stop would be a similar thing although the distance is longer. Presumably Swindon passengers have a suitable alternative train with an open stop at SWI.

 

[43066]

The Swindon stop would be a similar thing although the distance is longer. Presumably Swindon passengers have a suitable alternative train with an open stop at SWI.

Indeed. There’s a departure to Cheltenham Spa departing PAD two minutes after the one in the OP.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Many years ago when LHCS was still a thing on the WCML, Intercity departures from Euston would pick up at Watford and Intercity trains into Euston would set down at Watford, I boarded at Watford going south and alighted at Watford going north many times, nothing was ever said as ticket checks on Down services generally didn't take place until after Watford. It was just done to stop Watford passengers taking up seats out of Euston, to ensure long-distance passengers got priority and could get a seat.

Some Avanti services still do, I wonder how many people (if any) will do that fast journey and take the risk.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Watford Junction all day on 09/05/2023

Train information at Watford Junction all day on 09/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[jfollows]

Some Avanti services still do, I wonder how many people (if any) will do that fast journey and take the risk.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Watford Junction all day on 09/05/2023

Train information at Watford Junction all day on 09/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I think all Avanti services are pick up only down/set down only up.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I think all Avanti services are pick up only down/set down only up.

The "Some" was in reference to all Avanti services, many of which pass Watford Junction and do not stop.
They are all limited advertising.

 

[jfollows]

I used to use Manchester-Macclesfield a lot, on services which were pick-up only at Macclesfield, and Wilmslow-Manchester on set-down only at Wilmslow. Never a problem, but in the latter case you were wise to arrive early in case the train ran early.
Since then privatisation and ORCATS have meant that these are mainly dropped, the operator wants a bigger share of the ticket sales for the services, so Macclesfield and Wilmslow are now always full stops. Even Stockport for long-distance trains.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 May 2023 ==

The "Some" was in reference to all Avanti services, many of which pass Watford Junction and do not stop.
They are all limited advertising.

OK, so all Avanti services which stop ... we're in agreement!
PS And I wouldn't "chance it" on these services these days anyway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ask @TT-ONR-NRN what happens if you do the opposite and board a train that has stopped to set down passengers only.

Mostly very little unless the station concerned happens to be Watford Jn, in which case the cavalry are called in!

 

[jfollows]

And Stockport really should be "set down only" in the down direction because trains are allowed to leave towards Manchester earlier than their booked departure times. Not that this happens very often, but it very much looks like a case of having a cake and eating it for the operators.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And Stockport really should be "set down only" in the down direction because trains are allowed to leave towards Manchester earlier than their booked departure times. Not that this happens very often, but it very much looks like a case of having a cake and eating it for the operators.

They were for years, but nobody cared if you boarded, it was just for them to leave early. Clapham Jn is/was similar.

 

[43066]

And Stockport really should be "set down only" in the down direction because trains are allowed to leave towards Manchester earlier than their booked departure times. Not that this happens very often, but it very much looks like a case of having a cake and eating it for the operators.

It looks like a Waterloo East type set up, where it makes sense as you’ll never wait more than a few minutes for a train.

 

[jfollows]

They were for years, but nobody cared if you boarded, it was just for them to leave early. Clapham Jn is/was similar.

I agree, that was the sole purpose at Stockport (in the down direction).

 

[PeterC]

They won’t stop people, as such, it just wont be advertised as a stop and advance tickets to Swindon won’t be available for that train.

Presumably it won't be shown as a destination on journey planners either so you would need to be using an old school timetable or an enthusiast looking at RTT to find out

 

[jfollows]

In the new timetable there are a couple of evening services from Euston which are "set down only" at Stafford, 1H71 16:33 FX, 1H72 17:33 FX, both of which continue to Manchester via Crewe and Wilmslow. I don't know quite why, it will prevent them being shown as connecting services for a Birmingham-Manchester trip for example, so that could be one reason. It would also allow them to leave Stafford early and then just lose time waiting for a platform at Crewe.

EDIT Yes, National Rail Enquiries shows a FO journey, 18:07 New Street-Stafford 18:45, then 18:50 Stafford-Manchester 19:44 with the second train being 1H72, and FX this journey does not show because of the "set down only" stop at Stafford mentioned above.

 

[Jamiescott1]

About 5 years ago there was an Oxford to Marylebone early Sunday morning that was set down only at wycombe platform 3.
About 5 minutes after this departed there was a slow stopper from wycombe to Marylebone from platform 1 or 2.
Every week I told the people on platform 1 that there was a train arriving 40 minutes earlier if they go to platform 3. Every week no one listened to me and they had the slow journey.

I think this has come and before and if getting on at a set down only stop then you could be liable for a penalty fare.

 

[MikeWM]

I accidentally got on a 'Reading pick-up only' at Paddington a few years back, due to being in a rush and not properly reading RealTimeTrains, and then jumping on the train at the last minute without checking the departure board.

Fortunately no-one checked my ticket and I sneaked off at Reading - was concerned that I was going to be charged for a ticket to the first 'real' stop at Pewsey, or indeed taken there inadvertently but all ended up ok.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Ask @TT-ONR-NRN what happens if you do the opposite and board a train that has stopped to set down passengers only.

I will just insist that the amount of haulages I've successfully achieved doing this when I was younger far outweighed that one failure on Lumo.

And I've had a ticket valid from the station boarded to the station alighted each time, so that's not something I'll feel guilty about either, not that I could be bothered to do it these days as I really don't see the haulage gain as worth the hassle anymore.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 May 2023 ==

Mostly very little unless the station concerned happens to be Watford Jn, in which case the cavalry are called in!

Well, quite so. Hull Trains have never said a word at Stevenage, nor have SWR at Clapham Junction, nor have the other Lumo trains aside from the one that gained forum notoriety. TPE'll scream at you down the platform at Bolton, but it's perfectly understandable if you can't hear them over your AirPods.

 

[dk1]

Got shouted at by a grumpy VT guard at Lichfield Trent Valley for trying to board an early evening Holyhead service that was ‘set down’ only. Told him we were rail staff to which he said “oh no problem guys, jump on”. Made me laugh that one.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 May 2023 ==

We get passengers boarding up Norwich services at Stratford all the time even though set down only.

 

[jfollows]

Mostly very little unless the station concerned happens to be Watford Jn, in which case the cavalry are called in!

To be fair, I can see that the Watford Junction up direction one makes sense - it allows tickets to be checked on the train before Watford but also allows people to leave the train at London Euston without a further ticket check. Without it, all up long-distance trains which called at Watford would need a full barrier ticket check at London Euston, and that probably wouldn't go down well, although once all platforms have barriers/gates with ticket readers it might be easier to implement.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 May 2023 ==

Well, quite so. Hull Trains have never said a word at Stevenage, nor have SWR at Clapham Junction, nor have the other Lumo trains aside from the one that gained forum notoriety. TPE'll scream at you down the platform at Bolton, but it's perfectly understandable if you can't hear them over your AirPods.

Yes, but unlike with Watford-Euston, if you join a train at Clapham Junction you'll get your ticket checked at Waterloo anyway, so it's especially silly to make a fuss. I don't know about Hull Trains from Stevenage to King's Cross.

 

[Edsmith]

I accidentally got on a 'Reading pick-up only' at Paddington a few years back, due to being in a rush and not properly reading RealTimeTrains, and then jumping on the train at the last minute without checking the departure board.

Fortunately no-one checked my ticket and I sneaked off at Reading - was concerned that I was going to be charged for a ticket to the first 'real' stop at Pewsey, or indeed taken there inadvertently but all ended up ok.

I would imagine a lot of people do that if they know it's calling at Reading. There are Exeter services out of Waterloo in the evening peak that are supposedly fast to Basingstoke with Woking pick up only although people still get off there.

 

[dk1]

Going to be interesting from Monday week when GA try to introduce set down only on the 07:26 Norwich to Liv St at Colchester. Never worked in the 2000s but let’s see.

 

[BluePenguin]

Presumably it won't be shown as a destination on journey planners either so you would need to be using an old school timetable or an enthusiast looking at RTT to find out

Or use a journey planner and look at calling points? Lol

 

[12LDA28C]

Mostly very little unless the station concerned happens to be Watford Jn, in which case the cavalry are called in!

Not in my experience, as I described earlier in post #6

 

[MichaelTrains]

Ask @TT-ONR-NRN what happens if you do the opposite and board a tthe train that has stopped to set down passengers only.

Nothing. I regularly catch the LNER evening service from Shipley to Bradford if working late.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Used to be a gamble at Victoria spotting which trains would be calling at Clapham Junction but not advertising the fact. Inevitably the more of a rush you were in the more likely you were not to check and end up in East Croydon (or, on one occasion, Horley!) And catching a fast train could make a big difference if you had a connection to make - thanks to the extra stop the slow trains make, plus the extra distance from platform 15 to platform 11 (instead of from platform 13)

Gatwick Express took all the guesswork out of it.

 

[Kite159]

Got shouted at by a grumpy VT guard at Lichfield Trent Valley for trying to board an early evening Holyhead service that was ‘set down’ only. Told him we were rail staff to which he said “oh no problem guys, jump on”. Made me laugh that one.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 May 2023 ==

We get passengers boarding up Norwich services at Stratford all the time even though set down only.

Although those trains at Stratford are advertised as going to Liverpool Street on the platform screens so for the average passenger they wouldn't know any different to a train from Norwich to the train from Southend.