Pick up/set down only?

[Deerfold]

I've been on it (when it was the last NXEC from KGX). I can't actually remember if it did go through Wakefield Westgate or stop there, but I'm guessing it didn't.

Was on the 23.49 Doncaster - York last night and this goes via Ferrybridge and Church Fenton.

I've been on it to Leeds (£10 London - Leeds, £40 taxi home). Got caught out as booked taxi and we were about 45 minutes early (guess it went via Westgate) and we'd booked a local taxi rather than a Leeds taxi which would have been another tenner so we had to wait around for it.

A friend has also been on it to Doncaster. Unfortunately he only wanted to go to Newark and dozed off. EC got him a taxi back!

 

[Old Timer]

But the excess, although is the same price as the fare from the previous booked stop for pick up to the next booked stop for set down, should not be considered a fare.

Hence why I think we agreed you could still get one even if you're travelling with the First Class ALR.

As far as I recall the excess was to the full single price for the journey. BR recovered the fare as no law existed permitting a penalty to be applied. The penalty was only within ther gift of the Judicial system in those days.

The CoC have changed now to allow a "penalty".

 

[DarloRich]

MK is now set down only on some services for Virgin i think and i understand there will be more next timetable - staff do enforce it MUCH to the annoyance of "normals"

I have seen them hold the train and hunt for the culprit to turf them off!

 

[b0b]

As far as I recall the excess was to the full single price for the journey. BR recovered the fare as no law existed permitting a penalty to be applied. The penalty was only within ther gift of the Judicial system in those days.

The CoC have changed now to allow a "penalty".

Lets put it this way - it is still not permitted to join a service at a location if its for set-down only, even if holding a ticket from the previous booked stop where pick-up is allowed.

Holding an ALR does not change that.

 

[YorkshireRider]

So I would imagine by the time the train gets to Doncaster, all tickets checks should have been performed.

So what is stopping someone getting on at Doncaster to go to Leeds? Surely the ticket inspector doesnt come round again after Doncaster?

Or is the station closed, and only opened to allow the passengers off?

All the stations at this time are closed except peterbro and Leeds, and yes they do just open the exits to let the alighting passengers out

 

[route101]

on xc and virgin trains ive heard them annoucning motherwell on a ex glasgow train . This dosent seem to be enforced anymore .

 

[Geezertronic]

MK is now set down only on some services for Virgin i think and i understand there will be more next timetable - staff do enforce it MUCH to the annoyance of "normals"

I have seen them hold the train and hunt for the culprit to turf them off!

The 1843 Euston-Crewe (via Birmingham) has Milton Keynes Central as an advertised stop. The train is packed at Euston and it seems half the train empties at MKC

 

[The Planner]

MK is now set down only on some services for Virgin i think and i understand there will be more next timetable

Really ?? first ive heard, I presume thats the services on the up. If anything Virgin are now realising the importance of MK as a stop.

 

[142094]

All the stations at this time are closed except peterbro and Leeds, and yes they do just open the exits to let the alighting passengers out

Leeds will be open all the time for the very early TPE services.

 

[northwichcat]

Virgin used to have u/s at Stockport from Manchester.

Virgin had to remove that as a consequence of their VHF timetable as Northern had to controversially reduce the number of peak runs between Manchester and Chester via Stockport and between Manchester and Crewe via Stockport to allow Virgin to have enough paths to run extra London trains. As a result of that they had to remove the u/s so that Virgin didn't have half-empty trains running between Stockport and Manchester, while passengers were being left behind by other trains.

 

[Mintona]

Left Watford about 15mins early the other night, and arrived at Euston about 20mins early

 

[northwichcat]

For driver route learning reasons it more often than not goes via Pontefract off the mainline hense why it does not call at Wakefield Westgate

Late night and overnight trains quite frequently don't do many intermediate stops so they can use different routes during engineering works and the operator doesn't then need to arrange replacement bus services when the service is diverted. Extra stops would be beneficial on overnight Manchester Airport services in particular - someone living 5 miles from the Airport can't get an overnight service while people in York, Preston, Liverpool and Sheffield can!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Leeds will be open all the time for the very early TPE services.

From another post on here it appears Northern staff at Leeds restrict access to the main part of the station for overnight services.

 

[YorkshireRider]

Late night and overnight trains quite frequently don't do many intermediate stops so they can use different routes during engineering works and the operator doesn't then need to arrange replacement bus services when the service is diverted. Extra stops would be beneficial on overnight Manchester Airport services in particular - someone living 5 miles from the Airport can't get an overnight service while people in York, Preston, Liverpool and Sheffield can!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I doubt late night trains would stop at places like Maldeth Road and East Didsbury even if they could

 

[bradders1983]

Late night and overnight trains quite frequently don't do many intermediate stops so they can use different routes during engineering works and the operator doesn't then need to arrange replacement bus services when the service is diverted. Extra stops would be beneficial on overnight Manchester Airport services in particular - someone living 5 miles from the Airport can't get an overnight service while people in York, Preston, Liverpool and Sheffield can!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


From another post on here it appears Northern staff at Leeds restrict access to the main part of the station for overnight services.

I thought the overnighters only stopped at Manc Piccadilly and Leeds on the route between the Airport and York? Has It now been extended?

 

[YorkshireRider]

they call at Huddersfield also, engineering work permiting

 

[LE Greys]

I can remember when Stevenage had a lot of set-down only up trains and pick-up only down trains, but absolutely nobody paid any attention to it, and anyway tickets were virtually never checked. In the end, GNER just abandoned it.

I'd be curious to know what the rules are/were for a slam-door train making a signal stop in a station. I remember a story of someone who once "jumped" an empty stock working in Clapham Junction, and ended up in Wimbledon Depot.

 

[tbtc]

I'd like to see more of this, like East Coast at Peterborough...

...even if it doesn't stop people "jumping" on the train at least the reservations will be kept for the people who need to be on that service

 

[Old Timer]

I'd be curious to know what the rules are/were for a slam-door train making a signal stop in a station. I remember a story of someone who once "jumped" an empty stock working in Clapham Junction, and ended up in Wimbledon Depot.

There were no "rules" other than the fact that a station announcement would be made not to join.

In some areas, the trains were not stopped in station platforms unless absolutely unavoidable and then where possible the station supervisor would be made aware and the staff would ensure no-one got on.

 

[LE Greys]

In some areas, the trains were not stopped in station platforms unless absolutely unavoidable and then where possible the station supervisor would be made aware and the staff would ensure no-one got on.

Sounds sensible enough. Presumably, an unfortunate passenger who found himself on an express/empty stock with a ticket from a station where the train was not booked to stop would end up in trouble. Might not be good if someone jumped the Flying Scotsman at Finsbury Park for the last few miles.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

On the fast service from Waterloo - Guildford there are pickup/set down rules at Clapham junction.

Having spent a lot of time on many occasions on the up fast platforms at Clapham Junction, I have never seen a train call there which was indicated as "do not board" - they are all shown as for London Waterloo.

 

[swt_passenger]

Having spent a lot of time on many occasions on the up fast platforms at Clapham Junction, I have never seen a train call there which was indicated as "do not board" - they are all shown as for London Waterloo.

That's simply because the Clapham Junction restriction is generally only for the down services from Waterloo.

It is shown this way in the current Portsmouth and Southampton timetables I've just looked at, so you'd have to assume there isn't much of a problem with up longer distance trains, especially as in the am peak they don't stop. So the main aim of the restriction is to stop pax leaving Waterloo for Clapham Jn crowding out the fast trains. This is basically done by not putting the station on the displays at Waterloo.

There are no revenue issues for SWT here, unlike there are at Watford Junction between LM and VWC, (ie VWC not entitled to any part of Euston Watford Jn fares under Orcats as they theoretically don't call).

 

[Fred26]

I can remember when Stevenage had a lot of set-down only up trains and pick-up only down trains, but absolutely nobody paid any attention to it, and anyway tickets were virtually never checked. In the end, GNER just abandoned it.

There are still two EastCost services of an evening that don't pick-up going London-bound. Hull Trains never pick-up going into London from Stevenage.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I do see quite a few people getting off the down fast trains at Clapham Jct though, not a huge number but there are usually one or two...!!

Rather interestingly, from Victoria under BR the main line down trains were always pick up only but these days are advertised as calling at Clapham Jct; I presume in this case the opposite reason applies - overcrowding on the suburban departures?

 

[DarloRich]

Here are the detials for pick up/set down services for MKC:

Northbound

Euston - 1643 MKC - 1713u (Euston - Wolverhampton Monday - Friday)
Euston - 1743 MKC - 1813u (Euston - Wolverhampton Monday - Friday)
Euston - 1620 MKC - 1650u (Euston - Manchester Piccadilly Monday - Friday)
Euston - 1720 MKC - 1750u (Euston - Manchester Piccadilly Monday - Friday)
Euston - 1820 MKC - 1850u (Euston - Manchester Piccadilly Monday - Friday)
Euston - 1920 MKC - 1950u (Euston - Manchester Piccadilly Monday - Friday)
Euston - 1710 MKC - 1741u (Euston - Holyhead Monday - Friday)
Euston - 1810 MKC - 1841u (Euston - Holyhead Monday - Friday)
Euston - 1910 MKC - 1941u (Euston - Holyhead Monday - Friday)

Southbound

Wolverhampton - 0627 MKC - 0740s (Wolverhampton - Euston Monday - Friday)
Wolverhampton - 2145 MKC - 2306s (Wolverhampton - Euston Monday - Friday)
Wolverhampton - 2245 MKC - 0023s (Wolverhampton - Euston Monday - Friday)
Wolverhampton - 2237 MKC - 0012s (Wolverhampton - Euston -Sundays Only)
Manchester Piccadilly - 0715 MKC - 0846s (Piccadilly - Euston Monday - Friday)

Now some of these are wrong becuase I have have travelled on both the 1650 & 1741 from MKC to Manchester/Crewe. However i have been stopped getting on the 0846 southbound! I have also seen people turfed off the 1713 & 1813 It seems it depends on the platform staff (or my high Vis coat/pass!)

Timetables are here:
http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/assets/pdf/timetables/vt-timetable-a.pdf
http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/assets/pdf/timetables/vt-timetable-b.pdf
http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/assets/pdf/timetables/vt-timetable-d.pdf
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
been doing a bit of research and it looks like the extension to pick up/set down only will be in the morning on southbound services. LM will benefit if Virgin are blocked from picking up at MK say between 0730 & 0900 - not sure where all the extra passengers will go mind! Seems a bit odd to me

 

[The Planner]

LM will benefit if Virgin are blocked from picking up at MK say between 0730 & 0900 - not sure where all the extra passengers will go mind! Seems a bit odd to me

Not sure they are being blocked, but in the morning thats exactly what Virgin would want to happen, they dont want shed loads piling on at MK and using it as a commuter service.

 

[DarloRich]

Not sure they are being blocked, but in the morning thats exactly what Virgin would want to happen, they dont want shed loads piling on at MK and using it as a commuter service.

but that is exactly what i want to use it for! bar stewards!

 

[Geezertronic]

but that is exactly what i want to use it for! bar stewards!

It's bad enough on the 1843 ex Euston, seems like half the train gets off at MKC (advertised stop)

I've been on a delayed service ex Euston which was scheduled to pick up at Watford Junction which stopped but didn't open the doors before pulling off shortly afterwards (I presume no one was on the platform wanting to get on)

 

[DarloRich]

They do seem to enforce it at Euston but if you slip through then i have never had a problem getting off at MKC on any train on that list.
I think that is why the 1843 is so busy - it isnt on the pick up only group so everyone who was gripped at Euston gets stuffed on that one.

 

[northwichcat]

they call at Huddersfield also, engineering work permiting

If the line through Dewsbury is closed they do Huddersfield-Bradford-Leeds and if the line through Stalybridge is closed they do Huddersfield-Halifax-Manchester Vic-Salford-Manchestre Picc.

As Huddersfield is a calling point for all North TPE services they have to run a replacement bus service serving Huddersfield if both lines are closed and for overnight services that would likely mean they wouldn't run a train service between Manchester and Leeds not calling at Huddersfield, in addition to the replacement bus service.

 

[YorkshireRider]

If the line through Dewsbury is closed they do Huddersfield-Bradford-Leeds and if the line through Stalybridge is closed they do Huddersfield-Halifax-Manchester Vic-Salford-Manchestre Picc.

As Huddersfield is a calling point for all North TPE services they have to run a replacement bus service serving Huddersfield if both lines are closed and for overnight services that would likely mean they wouldn't run a train service between Manchester and Leeds not calling at Huddersfield, in addition to the replacement bus service.

Ahhh, so they always do Huddersfield then. Dont they sometimes go via Castleford, i seem to remember years ago i caught a train at castleford to Manchester because it was not calling at Leeds due to engineering work on a sunday, im talking a while ago here mind