Pick up/set down only

[MerlinRail 804]

When a stop on a service is marked as being pick up or set down only, is there anything actually stopping you from obeying this.

For example, getting a train from somewhere that is set down only, could you still just get on if you knew that it was going where you want, and the ticket didn’t restrict?

Surely they can’t enforce it for the people that would have access to this information?

 

[PeterC]

In theory you could be denied access to the platform although station design makes this impractical in most cases.

 

[ta-toget]

My understanding is that the ticket wouldn't be valid for getting on where you are not supposed to, and you would be charged for a ticket from the previous 'valid' stop.

 

[Bill57p9]

This has recently been discussed in the Fares advice section in this thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...strictions-affect-ticket-validity-how.282961/

In summary

• A ticket from a set down only stop is not valid (and equally a ticket to A pick up only stop)
• The train may not actually stop and if it does the doors may not be released
• You would probably get away with it most but not all of the time

 

[dan4291]

My understanding is that the ticket wouldn't be valid for getting on where you are not supposed to, and you would be charged for a ticket from the previous 'valid' stop.

This is true. Lumo do this for setting down at Stevenage. If anyone gets on at Stevenage towards Kings Cross and doesn't get off before the train leaves, they are charged a full fare from Newcastle, the previous valid stop! They deserve it if they miss the Set Down Only on the information screens and the station staff PA announcements (which the staff at Stevenage are on the ball with).

 

[boiledbeans2]

As mentioned in the above posts, it isn't officially allowed.

However, SWR and GA don't enforce the Waterloo-Clapham Junction and Liverpool Street-Stratford sections respectively. No one checks tickets in the very short journey.

 

[Flange Squeal]

However, SWR and GA don't enforce the Waterloo-Clapham Junction and Liverpool Street-Stratford sections respectively. No one checks tickets in the very short journey.

Something to bear in mind though is that you likely won’t get an announcement to say the train will no longer be calling at those stations, as no one should be on board for them, for example during disruption. I’ve seen people end up taken somewhat further down the line than where they intended several times in such scenarios! They presumably then have to try and get back either chancing it with no ticket, or having to spend £s buying a single from where they’ve ended up back to where they wanted to go.

 

[styles]

The ticket wouldn't be valid.

Chance of anything happening though is pretty slim.

 

[47296lastduff]

I used to ride the 90s Liv Street to Stratford and back, and never had a problem. I accepted that if challenged I would potentially have to pay extra, but it never arose.

 

[dk1]

Passengers regularly board up Norwich services as Stratford for some reason advertise them. We don’t wait time though.

 

[Kite159]

One thing I would hope will disappear in the brave new world of GBR is the set down only restrictions on Avanti at Watford heading into London and on TPE at Bolton heading into Manchester.

It just creates a hostile environment at Watford & Bolton with the announcements with someone shouting about not boarding the train. Especially when northern are having one of their usual days and have cancelled many trains creating a large gap in services from Bolton towards Piccadilly. After all all the revenue is heading towards the same place (I can't imagine TfL getting much percentage for Watford Junction - Euston owing to the long journey time)

I would keep the pick up only restrictions to prevent local travel, but it's not like someone from Watford will be taking the seat of someone going long distance as that person would already be on the train

 

[jfollows]

Watford won’t change, primarily because it would mean barrier ticket checks for arriving trains at Euston. And it’s been the way it is since well back into BR days anyway. Bolton may be different.

 

[jonb]

Another few examples from GA are firstly 2N11 (05:15 Clacton-on-Sea - Liverpool Street), which is booked to “set down” only at Romford. This service was added for staff travelling to the Rail Operating Centre, however customers quickly realised it was stopping and it’s now particularly busy (even being a 10-car 720). I believe MTREL may have even removed this from the CIS, but as others have mentioned it’s difficult to discourage customers on what is an open platform with multiple entrances.

There’s also 2F01, the 04:41 Colchester - Liverpool Street which is “set down” only at Seven Kings. This serves the nearby Ilford depot and GA/MTREL drivers who live in the Anglia region, who may travel “pass” to start their diagrams. Again, customers at Seven Kings know the time of this train (usually on the Mains - platform 1), so are ready and waiting when it arrives.

 

[Jimini]

Let's not forget this little belter of a thread from back in 2014:

1915 from Paddington skipping the Pick up only call tonight

(No, I wasn't on board!)

 

[dk1]

Let's not forget this little belter of a thread from back in 2014:

1915 from Paddington skipping the Pick up only call tonight

(No, I wasn't on board!)

So satisfying

 

[Thornaby 37]

One thing I would hope will disappear in the brave new world of GBR is the set down only restrictions on Avanti at Watford heading into London and on TPE at Bolton heading into Manchester.

It just creates a hostile environment at Watford & Bolton with the announcements with someone shouting about not boarding the train. Especially when northern are having one of their usual days and have cancelled many trains creating a large gap in services from Bolton towards Piccadilly. After all all the revenue is heading towards the same place (I can't imagine TfL getting much percentage for Watford Junction - Euston owing to the long journey time)

I would keep the pick up only restrictions to prevent local travel, but it's not like someone from Watford will be taking the seat of someone going long distance as that person would already be on the train

The Bolton restriction on TPE services is there for a good reason - to stop them becoming overcrowded with |Manchester to Bolton passengers while long distance passengers struggle to get to their booked seats (or even board if the train is too crowded)

 

[pokemonsuper9]

The Bolton restriction on TPE services is there for a good reason - to stop them becoming overcrowded with |Manchester to Bolton passengers while long distance passengers struggle to get to their booked seats (or even board if the train is too crowded)

But for the inbound short distance direction (Bolton -> Manchester, and Reading/Stratford/Clapham Jn/Watford to London) is there much harm in letting some people either take spare seats or take some standing space?

I understand the other direction to make sure people going long distance can get on.

 

[SteelWeelApeal]

Assuming you did have a valid ticket, would you have done anything wrong? E.g. I used to have free unlimited rail travel (dad works for the railway) and don’t think I ever did get on a set down only train, but would I have done anything wrong by doing so?

 

[JamesT]

But for the inbound short distance direction (Bolton -> Manchester, and Reading/Stratford/Clapham Jn/Watford to London) is there much harm in letting some people either take spare seats or take some standing space?

I understand the other direction to make sure people going long distance can get on.

The delay incurred waiting for people to board? And subsequent slower turnaround at the terminus?

 

[saismee]

Passengers regularly board up Norwich services as Stratford for some reason advertise them. We don’t wait time though.

I thought Stratford was pick up-only towards Norwich, and set down-only towards Liverpool Street. Am I mistaken? Also, does it only apply to intercity services? I've certainly used the 720s to get from Stratford to Liverpool Street to grab a seat on the next Norwich service before it gets busy. Definitely the preferable option to getting a Clacton/Colchester Town service and changing at Chelmsford or Colchester. Elizabeth Line and the tube are out of the question because GA travel was free for me at the time.

EDIT: The timetable says pick up-only on northbound trains, set down-only on southbound. It also seems to only say Ipswich stoppers have the same restrictions, and other services operated by 720s don't (except in the morning peak and some odd edge-cases at night). I probably never boarded a set down-only train, they certainly weren't advertised as such!

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I thought Stratford was pick up-only towards Norwich, and set down-only towards Liverpool Street. Am I mistaken?

In railway terminology "up" is equal to "towards London", so "up Norwich" is "from Norwich".

The delay incurred waiting for people to board? And subsequent slower turnaround at the terminus?

But if it's already going to stop there to let people off there can't be much harm in some people just jumping on while the train is already there.

 

[saismee]

In railway terminology "up" is equal to "towards London", so "up Norwich" is "from Norwich".

I know that, I just misinterpreted it as "board up Norwich services" instead of "board up Norwich services" whoopsie...

 

[norbitonflyer]

Assuming you did have a valid ticket, would you have done anything wrong? E.g. I used to have free unlimited rail travel (dad works for the railway) and don’t think I ever did get on a set down only train, but would I have done anything wrong by doing so?

Likjewise, with a six-zone travelcard I have occasionally travelled Victoria - Clapham Junction on trains advertised as first stop East Croydon (so my ticket would have been valid to that first stop).

 

[JamesT]

But if it's already going to stop there to let people off there can't be much harm in some people just jumping on while the train is already there.

Because it quite likely won’t be that quick. A set down could be a matter of seconds as people get off then it’s clear enough to leave. Whereas an end-doored long distance train could lose minutes with people queuing up to get on.

 

[yorkie]

When a stop on a service is marked as being pick up or set down only, is there anything actually stopping you from obeying this. For example, getting a train from somewhere that is set down only, could you still just get on if you knew that it was going where you want, and the ticket didn’t restrict? Surely they can’t enforce it for the people that would have access to this information?

Absolutely fine for Stratford to Liverpool Street, but for Watford Junction to Euston, they will bark at you if you try to board (I experienced rude shouting at passengers when I alighted from there, even during disruption!)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Mar 2025 ==

I thought Stratford was pick up-only towards Norwich, and set down-only towards Liverpool Street. Am I mistaken?

It is indeed set down only towards Liverpool Street, but it is absolutely fine to board.

I probably never boarded a set down-only train, they certainly weren't advertised as such!

They are advertised on the screens on the relevant platform, but not on the main departure boards.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Mar 2025 ==

This is true. Lumo do this for setting down at Stevenage. If anyone gets on at Stevenage towards Kings Cross and doesn't get off before the train leaves, they are charged a full fare from Newcastle, the previous valid stop! They deserve it if they miss the Set Down Only on the information screens and the station staff PA announcements (which the staff at Stevenage are on the ball with).

Anyone who was charged on that basis could refuse to pay. Lumo have no authority in law to do this.

 

[saismee]

They are advertised on the screens on the relevant platform, but not on the main departure boards.

That's probably it then. I was always on my way to platforms 9 and 10 and checked the departure time afterwards - the journey I was making was very flexible and I could take any combination of any GA services. At one point I went to Liverpool Street and then Norwich via Stansted Airport

 

[CW2]

Last Friday I was in Lichfield for a concert. Returning home to Crewe I waited at Lichfield Trent Valley for the 2146 Euston - Crewe LNW service. For reasons unknown that got terminated at Nuneaton, and later ran ECS to Crewe. That's officially the last northbound passenger train of the night, so on paper I was stranded. Fortunately there is a 2200 Euston - Liverpool Avanti which calls to set down only, so I was able to board that and reach Crewe with minimal delay.

So, why does the 2200 Euston - Liverpool have set-down only stops at Tamworth, Lichfield Trent Valley, Stafford, Crewe, and Runcorn. Is it engineering related, or a commercial decision?

 

[jfollows]

So, why does the 2200 Euston - Liverpool have set-down only stops at Tamworth, Lichfield Trent Valley, Stafford, Crewe, and Runcorn. Is it engineering related, or a commercial decision?

So that when the service is diverted or curtailed, provision only has to be made for passengers joining before Tamworth. Otherwise, bus or taxi services would need to be provided for passengers joining at these stations.

So it’s a commercial decision.

 

[yorkie]

Last Friday I was in Lichfield for a concert. Returning home to Crewe I waited at Lichfield Trent Valley for the 2146 Euston - Crewe LNW service. For reasons unknown that got terminated at Nuneaton, and later ran ECS to Crewe. That's officially the last northbound passenger train of the night, so on paper I was stranded. Fortunately there is a 2200 Euston - Liverpool Avanti which calls to set down only, so I was able to board that and reach Crewe with minimal delay.

So, why does the 2200 Euston - Liverpool have set-down only stops at Tamworth, Lichfield Trent Valley, Stafford, Crewe, and Runcorn. Is it engineering related, or a commercial decision?

It makes sense for last trains from London to be set down only, as the demand from such stations will be very minimal.

It makes it easier to run rail replacement buses in the event of cancellations or diversions (e.g. in this case potentially via Aston).

However if anyone is stranded from missing previous last trains due to delays, then absolutely it makes sense for such trains to be used for that purpose; indeed any train company in a position to help a stranded customer in such circumstances is obliged to assist.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Mar 2025 ==

So that when the service is diverted or curtailed, provsion only has to be made for passengers joining before Tamworth. Otherwise, bus or taxi services would need to be provided for passengers joining at these stations.

Snap! It's cropped up in previous threads too.

 

[Watershed]

Last Friday I was in Lichfield for a concert. Returning home to Crewe I waited at Lichfield Trent Valley for the 2146 Euston - Crewe LNW service. For reasons unknown that got terminated at Nuneaton, and later ran ECS to Crewe. That's officially the last northbound passenger train of the night, so on paper I was stranded. Fortunately there is a 2200 Euston - Liverpool Avanti which calls to set down only, so I was able to board that and reach Crewe with minimal delay.

So, why does the 2200 Euston - Liverpool have set-down only stops at Tamworth, Lichfield Trent Valley, Stafford, Crewe, and Runcorn. Is it engineering related, or a commercial decision?

The only real justification I can think of is that it simplifies operations during engineering works (as a replacement bus can run non-stop to the next station if there are no passengers to an intermediate station).

From a practical perspective it can mean that trains can often run early if they run Fast Line when booked Slow Line etc., but the 22:00 in particular is constrained by Milton Keynes being an "open" call.