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Piccadilly to Maryport, embark at Deansgate?

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donald2007

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I am unsure of my plans but I'd like to purchase an AP ticket. If I have a MAN-MRY ticket could I embark at DGT or would I need a specific DGT-MRY ticket which therefore means I can't start my journey at MAN?
 
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Bletchleyite

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I am unsure of my plans but I'd like to purchase an AP ticket. If I have a MAN-MRY ticket could I embark at DGT or would I need a specific DGT-MRY ticket which therefore means I can't start my journey at MAN?

Theoretically you have to buy one from Deansgate if starting there. This is further complicated from the fact that the Barrow trains don't call at Deansgate so you'd get a totally different itinerary.

Why not go for Oxford Road? It's a short walk from both.
 

donald2007

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It's not like Waverley (EDB) and Haymarket (HYM) then, they're all considered stations in their own right for fare purposes?
 

Bletchleyite

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It's not like Waverley (EDB) and Haymarket (HYM) then, they're all considered stations in their own right for fare purposes?

The issue here is that the Barrow trains don't call at Deansgate, so you would get a totally different itinerary from there than you would from Picc. Plus that you must do what your reservations say on an Advance, and most Northern trains are "reservable".

It's not about Manchester Stns, it's about the fact that on an Advance if you have reservations you must follow them exactly unless a delay renders you unable to do so.

You might get away with it, but you might not. You certainly wouldn't if you tried to board a Barrow service at Deansgate as they don't stop there!

I suspect if you booked from Picc there would in practice be no issue boarding at Oxford Road (mainly because a Manchester Stns ticket should open the gateline and it's not being done to avoid a fare) but those trains not calling at Deansgate significantly complicates things in terms of starting there as you would not be able to board your booked train so your ticket would be invalid.
 

Mcr Warrior

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Theoretically you have to buy one from Deansgate if starting there. This is further complicated from the fact that the Barrow trains don't call at Deansgate so you'd get a totally different itinerary.

Why not go for Oxford Road? It's a short walk from both.
Manchester Oxford Road is not a bad shout!

BTW, do Advance tickets from Manchester Stns to Maryport tend to be routed via Barrow or via Carlisle?
 

donald2007

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This site's booking engine is offering me a split at Preston (PRE) for a very good STD fare.
DGT-PRE
PRE-MRY via CARlisle.

The fares and itinerary are identical whether I embark at MAN or at DGT. Despite this, I would need to decide now whether I wish to embark at MAN or DGT, or take your suggestion for MCO.
 

Mcr Warrior

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Up to you. Typically there's 3 trains per hour during the working week from Deansgate direct to Preston. Some trains (10 per day) actually do continue on to Barrow-in-Furness, but obviously you'll have to change at Preston if you're routed on your advance to Maryport via Carlisle.
 

donald2007

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I'm a little confused, the helpful poster @Bletchleyite was concerned I wouldn't be able to take my journey if I embarked at DGT than MAN. But it's the same train I would board at DGT as I would at MAN.

I just wanted to know if I would be OK boarding at DGT because it would say "Manchester Stns" and its like the situation of HYM and EDB in Edinburgh, or I would be subject to a penalty.

​

 

NorthWestRover

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Yeah, the Cumbria trains do stop at Deansgate. They don't stop at Salford Crescent.

Edit to add - they didn't stop at Deansgate when they went via Wigan (until December 2022), but do since they have been routed via Bolton.
 

Bletchleyite

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I'm a little confused, the helpful poster @Bletchleyite was concerned I wouldn't be able to take my journey if I embarked at DGT than MAN. But it's the same train I would board at DGT as I would at MAN.

I just wanted to know if I would be OK boarding at DGT because it would say "Manchester Stns" and its like the situation of HYM and EDB in Edinburgh, or I would be subject to a penalty.

It's not officially allowed IF you have a reservation on the first train, but there's a reasonable chance nobody would care.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Yeah, the Cumbria trains do stop at Deansgate. They don't stop at Salford Crescent.

Edit to add - they didn't stop at Deansgate when they went via Wigan (until December 2022), but do since they have been routed via Bolton.

The last two tonight don't! (Well, the very last didn't stop anywhere as it was cancelled). Appears the OP is being routed via Carlisle anyway. Having checked again it appears most now do but a couple per day don't.

Beware that if the train to Carlisle is a TPE it is very likely not to run. You may want to try to get an itinerary involving Avanti in this case.
 

Mcr Warrior

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If the OP wants to travel from Deansgate, and advance tickets are available from Deansgate, and they're the same price as from Oxford Road or Piccadilly, then what's the problem?
 

Bletchleyite

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If the OP wants to travel from Deansgate, and advance tickets are available from Deansgate, and they're the same price as from Oxford Road or Piccadilly, then what's the problem?

The problem is that on an Advance you must follow any reservations precisely, and almost all Northern services are reservable.

It would probably be OK based on industry guidance to allow this sort of thing if it isn't being done to avoid a higher fare, but if you meet an awkward RPI then you lose your money...

I'd probably buy it from Deansgate and if boarding at Picc buy a single to Deansgate. That's 100% legit.
 

NorthWestRover

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The last two tonight don't! (Well, the very last didn't stop anywhere as it was cancelled). Appears the OP is being routed via Carlisle anyway. Having checked again it appears most now do but a couple per day don't.
Monday to Friday, I think it's just the last one northbound doesn't. Not sure about from Cumbria or on weekends.
 

Bletchleyite

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Is it possible to get an AP for Manchester Stns? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_station_group

The origin of your ticket will probably be Manchester Stns, but your reservation and itinerary will start at the actual station you pick, and it's that that matters. Near enough all Northern trains are "reservable" so you will get a reservation on your itinerary.

As I said it's very likely you would get away with it because it's clearly not trying to get away with a lower fare, but it's not 100% certain that you would, you'd just have to meet an awkward RPI and your ticket would be worthless.

Some would argue that if you buy an Advance from Manchester Stns you can take a connecting service from any Manchester station to the one booked as long as the ticket's route is respected (it's probably +Connections which means any TOC). However, this is for some debate and not all staff will consider that reasonable, and it only takes one awkward one to miss your train and lose your ticket value. Thus the only sensible advice with Advances is to do exactly what your itinerary says.

A single from Picc to Deansgate is £2.80, or about £1.90 with Railcard, by the way. On the basis that even an Advance for that trip isn't going to be particularly cheap, it's quite a risk to take to avoid paying that. Assuming just going from Oxford Road either way doesn't work, I'd book it from Deansgate and buy that single if I did want to go from Picc. Or take the risk, but the walk up single (there's only one, Anytime Day Single) is £68...
 
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donald2007

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Thank you. I understand.

As usual, the TOC have got the travelling public by the balls, forcing us to buy a "regulated fare" which of course is very expensive.
 

Hadders

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Advance tickets are train specific and where you are issued with a seat reservation you must travel on those trains.

Although starting/finishing short with an Advance ticket is not strictly in accordance with the rules for Advance tickets, the policy of the Rail industry is that no additional fare should be charged (unless there is clear evidence of intent to try and avoid a higher fare).
 

Mcr Warrior

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As usual, the TOC have got the travelling public by the balls, forcing us to buy a "regulated fare" which of course is very expensive.
Fairly sure that a cheaper walk-up ticket combination should be possible if travelling via Penrith by splitting at, for example, Adlington or Chorley and again at Dalston.
 
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