Phones 4 u

[SS4]

The thing is, people are now able to keep their latest smartphone for a lot longer than a phone before. Two years should be easy, and it should not only last that long, but still be supported in terms of updates and be powerful enough to still run everything now on the app stores.

This is pretty important IMO. Sort-of related is that smartphone owners expect updates to their phone. It wasn't that long ago that you bought your phone and that was that, if you wanted a new feature you'd need a new phone.

Buying a SIM-free phone from somewhere like Amazon is far better, and I can get a SIM by post too - so surely the phone networks will also get rid of more stores in due course.

Also agreed. I also foresee SIM only plans becoming more competitive as people want to keep their phone

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is there any need for politics here? There are loads of possible factors at play.

Glad to see that I was not alone in sensing this....

 

[meridian2]

Wow, I think that is a little harsh. Perhaps using the dictionary definition it is true but most who claim are paying or have paid in to the system. And I think we all know the what is implied when calling people on Benefits scroungers.

I was being sarcastic. Classic Daily Mail logic though: anyone who claims benefits is a 'White Dee' or whatever her name is. They kick the poor but ignore the rich. Sorry if you took it literally.
I happen to know scrounging only accounts for only 0.9% of benefits claimants.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Do I sense political posturing making an entrance upon this thread here ?

Well you're naive to think that discussing employment etc won't inevitably bring in the discussion of politics. A bit like a warped version of Godwin's law.
Meridian's law sounds nice though.

 

[Kite159]

I can see the beginning of the end of those mega deals with a lot of cashback, either up front or throughout the contract period. Stores are useful to actually look at the phone, to see how it feels etc, but I know a few people who exited the store and purchased the same phone online paying something stupid like £30 a month but with cashback was around £10 a month.

 

[ilkestonian]

Glad to see that I was not alone in sensing this....

My thoughts too.

I've read that even after putting phones 4 u into administration, the owners, BC Partners, are 30% up on the deal in spite of the huge price paid several years ago.

Bonds were issued for more than the original purchase price of the company, effectively making the purchase "free", at the cost of burdening the company with huge debts.

Two issues here.

Huge debts might well have tied the hands of Phones 4 u in negotiations with the networks.

Also, do the bonds have to be repaid if the business goes to the wall? I'd guess not...

 

[SS4]

Also, do the bonds have to be repaid if the business goes to the wall? I'd guess not...

I was under the impression assets are paid to debtors in a given order, the bonds are very unlikely to be repaid and investors will probably receive pennies in the pound if anything.

I can see the beginning of the end of those mega deals with a lot of cashback, either up front or throughout the contract period. Stores are useful to actually look at the phone, to see how it feels etc, but I know a few people who exited the store and purchased the same phone online paying something stupid like £30 a month but with cashback was around £10 a month.

I never really used a physical store to look around in so I couldn't say how useful they've been but I suspect the networks are more interested in selling directly rather than having profit eroded by the vendor and with a competitive market (the last few years have seen 24 month contracts become standard over the 12 month ones)

The whole sector seems dependent on it's competition playing ball and the only other way I could see them being able to hold their own is by selling unlocked phones without a SIM or stocking PAYG with the problems that entails

 

[Kite159]

Selling direct = less commission to be paid to a 3rd party = phone company happier = more profit for them.

Assets are paid to pay the costs of the administrators (who charge some silly amounts like £86 an hour for a junior office clerk) before paying other secured creditors, unsecured creditors are likely to get pretty much sod-all

 

[Clip]

This was posted on another forum:



As I said, I think there's more to it than what Phones 4U (and ex-owner John Caudwell) is saying.

There's a lot more I could say myself, except that I'd probably fall foul of libel laws and don't fancy being sued, so I'll say nothing!

Indeed. I was reading tonight that when they issued bonds on the Irish markets last year they then pulled £200M out for themselves as a nice little bonus. Bet those who bought them are properly screwing right now.

And Vodaphone have come out fighting saying that they wanted to deal with them but P4U would not budge on what they wanted...

May get interesting this.

 

[richw]

I've bought my last 3 contracts from Tesco Phone Shop. O2 being the only network unavailable in Tesco stores.
All of the articles I've read say car phone warehouse and phones 4u were the only big national phone shop, yet every big Tesco round here has a phone shop, so on that theory I guess their phone shop business must be pretty large.
Tesco is ideal, free parking, buy dinner and upgrade my phone all easy in one shop. I've also found their staff always willing to go the extra mile.

 

[Kite159]

O2 not being available in Tesco phone-stores seems strange as Tesco Mobile runs on O2.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well you're naive to think that discussing employment etc won't inevitably bring in the discussion of politics. A bit like a warped version of Godwin's law. Meridian's law sounds nice though.

So you accuse me of naivety for making my original posting in response to posting # 19 on this thread which stated...Iain Duncan Smith accusing the whole workforce of the company as being "****less and lazy"...as a result of what may occur in this process of administration. I see no intelligent correlation to this statement to your comment of "the discussion of politics" to use your own phrase.

Kindly expound your political theory that conjoins the possible lack of employment to this workforce to the comment that I was referring to that which was made in posting #19.

 

[jon0844]

O2 not being available in Tesco phone-stores seems strange as Tesco Mobile runs on O2.

I think O2 actually has a stake in Tesco Mobile too, so it's more than just a virtual operator - but perhaps that's why O2 doesn't sell in Tesco, as it already is in Tesco (technically).

All the supermarkets are now dabbling in mobile, and Tesco perhaps the furthest ahead - followed perhaps by Asda (at least at their super-mega-stores). However, I don't know if they do a particularly big trade compared to the high street.

I know when I go to my Tesco, which is the UK flagship store on account of its locality to the UK HQ of Tesco, the store is usually pretty dead and staff are just hanging around chatting to each other. Perhaps it's the location of the shop, or that people don't currently know that it even exists (and what it does).

Maybe a good time for Tesco to do some proper advertising. I think a lot of people know Tesco has its 'own' network but perhaps don't realise they can buy phones on other networks.

 

[meridian2]

So you accuse me of naivety for making my original posting in response to posting # 19 on this thread which stated...Iain Duncan Smith accusing the whole workforce of the company as being "****less and lazy"...as a result of what may occur in this process of administration. I see no intelligent correlation to this statement to your comment of "the discussion of politics" to use your own phrase.

Kindly expound your political theory that conjoins the possible lack of employment to this workforce to the comment that I was referring to that which was made in posting #19.

Don't be so loquacious, you were the one who made the initial inference:

'Do I sense political posturing making an entrance here'?

No theories have been made on my part. Clarity, not waffle please. :roll:

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If "waffle" be the description of an attempt to bring clarity to a point of politics that was previously not referred to upon this thread, then "waffle" shall indeed stand on its own feet.

One might look at what Barbara Castle did not do in her ministerial capacity in the ruling Labour Party to honour a pre-election promise to ensure a lessening of job losses in the railway industry in the post-Beeching era and then use the same political point making that was the case in posting # 19 on this thread.

 

[jon0844]

What has happened at Phones 4u has nothing to do with politics from what I can see, and everything to do with the way the new owners basically used the company to get rich, and then let the company fail. If not today, then in the future its demise was a certainty.

Seems Vodafone and EE are perfect scapegoats here, but clearly they all knew how it was all going to end up.

Hardly surprising though, as you only need to see the way the staff are made to operate and do anything to get a deal to see that such practices probably went all the way to the very top.

Unlike some businesses going to the wall, this isn't one that has any real impact on the consumer. Dixons Carphone could potentially put prices up now it has no real competition, but in my opinion it DOES have competition from the networks, online sellers, Amazon (for buying SIM free, which more people should do) and even the supermarkets. You can even import many high end phones from abroad, such as Germany, for lower prices. Get on a credit card, take out a SIM only contract for half the monthly cost (or even cheaper) and you're far better off after 12-24 months.

In fact, I was told earlier this year that EE was going to pull out of Carphone Warehouse too this year. Maybe it won't now, but I bet it will renegotiate terms in its (EE) favour.

I've always thought CPW and Dixons are each on borrowed time given the changing world of retail, so I don't even know if the merger will work in the long term. CPW did after all open Best Buy stores in the UK and they failed miserably.

 

[richw]

I think O2 actually has a stake in Tesco Mobile too, so it's more than just a virtual operator - but perhaps that's why O2 doesn't sell in Tesco, as it already is in Tesco (technically).

All the supermarkets are now dabbling in mobile, and Tesco perhaps the furthest ahead - followed perhaps by Asda (at least at their super-mega-stores). However, I don't know if they do a particularly big trade compared to the high street.

I know when I go to my Tesco, which is the UK flagship store on account of its locality to the UK HQ of Tesco, the store is usually pretty dead and staff are just hanging around chatting to each other. Perhaps it's the location of the shop, or that people don't currently know that it even exists (and what it does).

Maybe a good time for Tesco to do some proper advertising. I think a lot of people know Tesco has its 'own' network but perhaps don't realise they can buy phones on other networks.

My local Tesco extra you have to walk past the phone shop to get in, and it's always been busy when I've been in.

Tesco packages are priced highly competitive on their own network. My Tesco contract is £15 a month other networks wanted a minimum of £25 for same stuff, and I get treble club card points as well on my deal.
I've also got 08 numbers inclusive in my £15 as well.

 

[jon0844]

Problem is you're stuck on O2's network which for most of the UK isn't good for 3G. Fine for 2G, but until a site is updated for 4G then the 3G site will in all likelihood be an old site that supports very low speeds in comparison to EE and Three.

If you don't really need data though, Tesco is fine. I have a Tesco PAYG SIM as a backup, but must admit I've not used it for ages because of the lack of decent 3G coverage.

 

[asylumxl]

Problem is you're stuck on O2's network which for most of the UK isn't good for 3G. Fine for 2G, but until a site is updated for 4G then the 3G site will in all likelihood be an old site that supports very low speeds in comparison to EE and Three.

If you don't really need data though, Tesco is fine. I have a Tesco PAYG SIM as a backup, but must admit I've not used it for ages because of the lack of decent 3G coverage.

In North Herts, even on 3G on O2, I get better performance than my friends on 3 and EE on 4G. Potential network speed is irrelevant if it doesn't work!

Admittedly there's very little in the way of 4G in Hertfordshire on O2 currently anyway, with a small amount near St Albans (spill over from the big smoke I imagine).

But in my opinion it's better to have decent 3G than ****e 4G. I'm sure that's something my friends would agree with.

 

[jon0844]

Whereabouts are you getting higher speeds than EE/Three? I'm really interested as I've got a personal interest in network coverage, and particularly data speeds. Indeed, I provide a lot of data from a range of networks to RootMetrics from multiple devices I have.

O2 usually manages data speeds of 0.5-3Mbps on 3G, compared to 20-25 Mbps on 3G with EE and Three, and 20-80Mbps on EE 4G and 20-40Mbps on Three 4G.

O2 4G, which includes a backhaul update, means better 2G and 3G but coverage is still quite dire. That said, Hatfield and St Albans are done, along with Hemel Hempstead where I've been a fair bit recently. It's where 4G doesn't exist that O2 has all the problems, due to years of failing to invest and narrowly avoiding a huge fine from Ofcom. Even now, it has let its 4G roll out plans slip by about a year.

4G is however FAR better than 3G as the network technology is totally different. 3G employs something called cell breathing, and it means sites can grow and shrink to reduce interference and congestion issues, but that has obvious side effects. And the way things work, you can have poor data (with huge latency) even with 3 bars on 3G, but get speeds of 10Mbps on 4G with the phone showing 0 bars (yes, phones can show 0 bars but not 'emergency calls only' or 'no service).

Latency causes the biggest problem for mobile users, making even a fast connection appear slow given the use of apps and mobile web apps. 4G makes things super nippy in comparison.

I'd be quite happy to see the back of 3G if all of the existing sites could be switched over to 4G. Over the years, that's exactly what I expect to happen with a lot of 3G spectrum refarmed for LTE/4G use.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I wonder how many of the mobile phone ownership in Britain still have a mobile phone that only concerns itself with the making and receiving of telephone calls.

 

[jon0844]

I bet it won't be many. It's not even a generation thing, but a society thing. People glued to a mobile to play games, use social media and using the phone to play media or watch TV etc.

People email, text or IM instead of calling people, possibly as it's quicker and there's less risk of having to have a conversation.

In many ways, it's very sad but it's also like an addiction.

 

[Clip]

I wonder how many of the mobile phone ownership in Britain still have a mobile phone that only concerns itself with the making and receiving of telephone calls.

Had a friend round for tea last weekend and even though he makes a ton of money in his line of work he still has a basic mobile. Stops him from working from home he says. I reckon hes just tight.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Had a friend round for tea last weekend and even though he makes a ton of money in his line of work he still has a basic mobile. Stops him from working from home he says. I reckon he's just tight.

There again, on hearing what he says....I reckon he's just right...

 

[Clip]

Quite possibly. In fact a new thread for discussing such I think is needed.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

PwC (the formerly known PriceWaterhouseCoopers) who are the administrators so appointed to handle the administration of Phones 4 U, have today stated that an 11th hour deal to save the company by the bondholders has failed and said that there is no realistic possibility of a debt for equity swap.

 

[richw]

I wonder how many of the mobile phone ownership in Britain still have a mobile phone that only concerns itself with the making and receiving of telephone calls.

My wife. She has a £9 handset from Tesco. She also has a smart phone but moves the sim to the £9 handset when she isn't working otherwise she'll work 24/7

 

[asylumxl]

Whereabouts are you getting higher speeds than EE/Three? I'm really interested as I've got a personal interest in network coverage, and particularly data speeds. Indeed, I provide a lot of data from a range of networks to RootMetrics from multiple devices I have.

Anywhere within the areas around Hitchin/Stevenage.

O2 usually manages data speeds of 0.5-3Mbps on 3G, compared to 20-25 Mbps on 3G with EE and Three, and 20-80Mbps on EE 4G and 20-40Mbps on Three 4G.

Having just done a speed test, on HSPA+ (admittedly not vanilla 3G, technically 3.5G) I get 9mbps with only 2 bars of signal. I don't think that's too shabby for such a low signal area.

 

[jon0844]

Nope, that's quite good. But I think O2 has brought 4G to these areas, meaning 3G should now support DC-HSPA and have a gigabit backhaul connection. Makes all the difference.

 

[asylumxl]

Nope, that's quite good. But I think O2 has brought 4G to these areas, meaning 3G should now support DC-HSPA and have a gigabit backhaul connection. Makes all the difference.

Not according to their own coverage checker and my own experience. As I said I only get 4G heading south on the Park St side of St Albans, as their map also shows.

 

[jon0844]

I have 4G in Hatfield on O2, but the way they have their sites configured I often go onto 2G and it won't go back without a reboot or fight mode toggle. A bad configuration of old and new, but hopefully will be fixed.