Phone Ticket Availability

[Kiredoryor]

I have booked tickets using thetrainline.com where there is an option to have the e-ticket(?) sent to my Mobile. It's great.
This week I have booked the idential ticket with the same amount of advance notice but only have to option of Special Delivery or collect from a machine.
Why?

As it happens my local station has no machines so I have to try at the first change (Ipswich), the 4 to 5 mins is rarely enough time to get to a machine and back again so I have to travel with just the booking ref. Greater Anglia conductors have always been understanding but I'd much rather just have the ticket on my phone or print it out. Has thetrainline stopped doing that or allowing one to print at home?

 

[mikeg]

As it happens my local station has no machines so I have to try at the first change (Ipswich), the 4 to 5 mins is rarely enough time to get to a machine and back again so I have to travel with just the booking ref. Greater Anglia conductors have always been understanding but I'd much rather just have the ticket on my phone or print it out. Has thetrainline stopped doing that or allowing one to print at home?

What ticket were you buying exactly? At which station were you starting your journey? I really need to know this to investigate.

Also thetrainline are never cheaper than train company websites, as they charge additional and unneccesary booking fees whereas train company websites do not. You can also book tickets for any train company on any given train company booking site, so really no need to bother with the trainline. The train companies charge the same, as all fares come from a central database (although sometimes if you book direct with the company you are travelling with, they can offer a slight discount or other advantages).

It's also the case that if it's not an advance single, there's no benefit to booking online anyway and you can obtain your ticket at the station where you start your journey (or on the train if the station is unstaffed with no ticket machine) for no additional cost.

By the way, mobile phone tickets are known as 'm-tickets' and display in an app. You book direct through the app, perhaps that's where you are going wrong? Also print at homes are not valid on a mobile screen, they must be printed out, though some guards may show discretion and accept them on a phone screen, I'd recommend actually printing them.

A further question: Is your local station staffed? If so they may do collect from counter, see if it is on the drop down list on collect from machines, or look on NRE to see if collect from counter is available. A booking reference, as you seem to be aware, is not valid for travel and they would be perfectly entitled to charge you again or perhaps penalise you in some other way for travelling without a valid ticket if you just have the booking reference.

 

[philthetube]

If you are planning on starting your journey without a ticket I would email both Greater Anglia and the trainline explaining your problem. Although this would have no legal standing it could help if you ended up in dispute.

 

[Kiredoryor]

What ticket were you buying exactly? At which station were you starting your journey? I really need to know this to investigate.

Also thetrainline are never cheaper than train company websites, as they charge additional and unneccesary booking fees whereas train company websites do not. You can also book tickets for any train company on any given train company booking site, so really no need to bother with the trainline. The train companies charge the same, as all fares come from a central database (although sometimes if you book direct with the company you are travelling with, they can offer a slight discount or other advantages).

It's also the case that if it's not an advance single, there's no benefit to booking online anyway and you can obtain your ticket at the station where you start your journey (or on the train if the station is unstaffed with no ticket machine) for no additional cost.

By the way, mobile phone tickets are known as 'm-tickets' and display in an app. You book direct through the app, perhaps that's where you are going wrong? Also print at homes are not valid on a mobile screen, they must be printed out, though some guards may show discretion and accept them on a phone screen, I'd recommend actually printing them.

A further question: Is your local station staffed? If so they may do collect from counter, see if it is on the drop down list on collect from machines, or look on NRE to see if collect from counter is available. A booking reference, as you seem to be aware, is not valid for travel and they would be perfectly entitled to charge you again or perhaps penalise you in some other way for travelling without a valid ticket if you just have the booking reference.

Thank you for your comprehensive reply mikeg - very helpful.

I start my journey from Wickham Market (WCM) an unmanned station on the small East Suffolk line and nearly always change at Ipswich to go anywhere.

I take your point on buying direct from the train companies and have done so on several occasions in the past but used thetrainline as I have their app on my phone and liked having an m-ticket. I couldn't understand why I was not offererd that option (or the option to print at home) the last time I booked the identical route.

I thought that in the case where I had an m-ticket that I had made the booking on my PC and was given to option of post, collect, print at home or an m-ticket, chose the latter and found it when I logged into the app on my phone.
I think you are suggesting that I might have had a senior moment and that the m-ticket was actually booked & paid for from the app? I certainly don't recall that but if you say that it is impossible to get an m-ticket from a PC booking then I guess I must have!!

Even so, I don't understand why thetraineline didn't offer the option to print at home which they most certainly have on previous bookings.

I found the m-ticket most convenient. Do the train companies have mobile phone apps that provide m-tickets?

 

[Kiredoryor]

If you are planning on starting your journey without a ticket I would email both Greater Anglia and the trainline explaining your problem. Although this would have no legal standing it could help if you ended up in dispute.

Thanks. It has certainly happened in the past and an email would certainly suggest that I was not trying to defraud anyone.

 

[mikeg]

Hmmm... I'm using the crosscountry app which also does m-tickets and can't find any m-tickets from Wickham Market either, perhaps for whatever reason they've stopped doing them from that station/on that route. I've tried a good range of dates and destinations. It's worth mentioning that Greater Anglia too have a train tickets app.

https://www.abelliogreateranglia.co.uk/travel-information/journey-planning/mobile-apps

I note there's a restriction on tickets into Liverpool street, namely that you can't buy them as an m-ticket in the morning peak. I haven't had time to try the app yet due to low battery and my phone refusing to install anything while the battery is low. Any of these apps should really be offering m-tickets where they're available and the Crosscountry and Greater Anglia ones have the advantage of no booking fee. I'll try the Greater Anglia app later and tell you what I see, Greater Anglia website should also offer print at home if it's available on a given service from a given location.

I'm starting to think for whatever reason GA have stopped selling print@home and m-tickets on that line/from Wickham Market.

 

[Paul Kelly]

As far as I know you can only (and have only ever been able to) buy mobile app tickets from a mobile app. It's a security feature that the ticket exists only inside the app itself - you can't buy it elsewhere and transfer it. As a result there is greatly reduced flexibility compared to a paper ticket, but it's still useful for (a) if you are travelling on the day and know you definitely won't need to excess, exchange or refund your ticket, and like the convenience of not having to buy a paper ticket or (b) if you are travelling from a station with no facilities to pick up tickets booked online, and you want to buy an advance ticket.

Also, whether an M-ticket is available for a given journey will depend to a large extent on the destination and route taken, and not just the station you're starting your journey for. I can certainly see m-tickets available in the Trainline app for journeys from Wickham Market to London Liverpool Street, for example (I'm looking at a departure of 07:00 on Thursday 20th October).

 

[mikeg]

Just to let you know the greater Anglia app is allowing the booking of m tickets from wickham market too. This will be better than the train line app as it doesn't have booking fees.

 

[Kiredoryor]

Thank you both. I'll download the GA app, take it from there and let you know if any anomalies occur.

 

[jsmith300]

You certainly can purchase m tickets from a PC with VTEC to then "collect" on your phone so perhaps trainline has the same feature

 

[Paul Kelly]

You certainly can purchase m tickets from a PC with VTEC to then "collect" on your phone

Nice find; it seems I was wrong then! However the principle that the ticket exists inside the mobile app and isn't valid outside it etc. still applies, as far as I can see. I doubt you can load it into the app on a new phone if your old phone is lost or stolen, for example - although I'm willing to be proved wrong, I don't think there's a facility for any back-end validation so the TOC must be able to guarantee that the ticket exists on a single mobile device only and can't be copied. Although that's a big limitation from the point of view of the passenger, it makes it a lot easier to roll m-tickets out for acceptance on multiple TOCs (also being discussed in [thread=136772]another thread[/thread]), as ticket checks can be done simply by looking at it. The problem is that as the ticket can't be marked it raises issues for keeping track of when period returns have been used. I don't think any TOCs are offering period returns as m-tickets yet.

But there is something new on the horizon: the other Virgin (West Coast) are now offering proper e-tickets which, as I understand, the guard or ticket inspector does have the ability to verify against a back-end database. An e-ticket like this exists "in the cloud" rather than inside the app on the user's phone as an m-ticket does, so it can be shown on any media (e.g. printed page, screenshot of booking confirmation e-mail). This is quite an exciting development but I can only see it working for TOC-only tickets for the time being as you're not going to be able to get all TOCs to agree on investing in the equipment for validation, especially when so many of them have only just procured (or are at the minute procuring) new mobile ticket issuing systems that may not (although I'd be happy to be proved wrong again) have the facility to validate e-tickets.

 

[jsmith300]

Have a look here to see the routes that non-advance and inter TOC tickets which can be purchased using VTEC's mtickets:

https://www.virgintrainseastcoast.c...0e2deba6cf7/vtec513-web-route-map-tickets.jpg

Also, VTECs tickets can be moved to a new device

 

[Hadders]

Have a look here to see the routes that non-advance and inter TOC tickets which can be purchased using VTEC's mtickets:

https://www.virgintrainseastcoast.c...0e2deba6cf7/vtec513-web-route-map-tickets.jpg

Also, VTECs tickets can be moved to a new device

According to the link above Anytime, Off Peak and Super Off Peak tickets are inter-available at Peterborough but not at Stevenage.

So I could use an m ticket on Great Northern from Kings Cross to Peterborough but not to Stevenage

Nice and simple then.....

 

[Wallsendmag]

Nice find; it seems I was wrong then! However the principle that the ticket exists inside the mobile app and isn't valid outside it etc. still applies, as far as I can see. I doubt you can load it into the app on a new phone if your old phone is lost or stolen, for example - although I'm willing to be proved wrong, I don't think there's a facility for any back-end validation so the TOC must be able to guarantee that the ticket exists on a single mobile device only and can't be copied. Although that's a big limitation from the point of view of the passenger, it makes it a lot easier to roll m-tickets out for acceptance on multiple TOCs (also being discussed in [thread=136772]another thread[/thread]), as ticket checks can be done simply by looking at it. The problem is that as the ticket can't be marked it raises issues for keeping track of when period returns have been used. I don't think any TOCs are offering period returns as m-tickets yet.



But there is something new on the horizon: the other Virgin (West Coast) are now offering proper e-tickets which, as I understand, the guard or ticket inspector does have the ability to verify against a back-end database. An e-ticket like this exists "in the cloud" rather than inside the app on the user's phone as an m-ticket does, so it can be shown on any media (e.g. printed page, screenshot of booking confirmation e-mail). This is quite an exciting development but I can only see it working for TOC-only tickets for the time being as you're not going to be able to get all TOCs to agree on investing in the equipment for validation, especially when so many of them have only just procured (or are at the minute procuring) new mobile ticket issuing systems that may not (although I'd be happy to be proved wrong again) have the facility to validate e-tickets.

You can transfer a m-Ticket to a new phone with the VTEC Ticket Wallet as long as you add it to your account on the VTEC site


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--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

According to the link above Anytime, Off Peak and Super Off Peak tickets are inter-available at Peterborough but not at Stevenage.



So I could use an m ticket on Great Northern from Kings Cross to Peterborough but not to Stevenage



Nice and simple then.....

It's a GTR restriction


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[Hadders]

It's a GTR restriction

But everyone says smart cards are supposed to simplify things...

This type of nonsense really needs to be sorted before smartcard a are rolled out.

 

[Wallsendmag]

But everyone says smart cards are supposed to simplify things...



This type of nonsense really needs to be sorted before smartcard a are rolled out.

VTEC see their future as barcode tickets GTR see theirs as smart cards they are after all very different railways


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[Hadders]

VTEC see their future as barcode tickets GTR see theirs as smart cards they are after all very different railways

How is Stevenage-Kings Cross with VTEC different to Stevenage-Kings Cross with GTR? The same could also be said for Peterborough.

At certain times of the day VTEC 'fill the gap' in fast services between London and Stevenage.

This type of thing should be mandated by the DfT, not left to individual 'here today gone tomorrow' operators to decide.

Any 'Any Permitted' ticket should be valid with any relevant operator.

 

[Wallsendmag]

VTEC's focus I believe is longer distance travellers with reservations something that smartcards aren't great at . GTR is more of a commuter railway the perfect operation for smart-cards. It's not that the tickets aren't inter-available it's that one TOC can't support a fulfilment method from the other.


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[Hadders]

VTEC's focus I believe is longer distance travellers with reservations something that smartcards aren't great at . GTR is more of a commuter railway the perfect operation for smart-cards. It's not that the tickets aren't inter-available it's that one TOC can't support a fulfilment method from the other.

Then inter-available tickets should not be sold as m tickets if they cannot be fulfilled by all operators on the route.

The should be TOC specific with an appropriate reduction in price to reflect the available number of trains on which they can be used.

 

[AlterEgo]

Then inter-available tickets should not be sold as m tickets if they cannot be fulfilled by all operators on the route.

The should be TOC specific with an appropriate reduction in price to reflect the available number of trains on which they can be used.

So this is making the ticketing system more complex. Nooooooo!